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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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In Reply to: What a great show off of "off topic". (long) posted by cheap-Jack on April 4, 2006 at 13:46:51:
CJ: ""First off, I already stated we cannot measure relevantly what we hear.""And my response was, and still is..it is trivial to measure changes that result from different wires. It requires measurement technology which is beyond the simplistic information that you are presenting. Note that I am speaking of the information as being simplistic, not you. The information you have read has been simplified for specific applications, they remove the burdon of e/m theory from the reader. I admire you for your attempt at using the information, most would not put that much effort into it. thank you.
CJ: ""YOU still pursue this measurement issue. Yet you still fail to answer my counter question: "do YOU have the ability to measure it" -anything relevant to what we hear given your statement to me: "you may be unable to understand what or how to measure, that is your limitation, not mine". Where is your answer as you already said you know how ??????""
I answered that, re-read the prior post. I also point out the lack of research into what the measured changes really mean to humans w/r to localization.
CJ: ""Failed to answer this your own issue, you diverted to something else not touched in my post instead - magnetic & electric fields.""
You must slow down..Please read the posts slowly and carefully.
CJ: ""What correct breakdown of what? I reiterate this is only an attempt of QUALITATIVE analysis based on wave progation velocity &
insulation dieelctric. You jumped in with your so called "half of the physics" - magnetic & electric fields. ""Use of half of the physics involved in signal propagation cannot be confused with a "Qualitative analysis". It is in NO WAY a qualitative analysis.
Propagation of a signal along any wire requires understanding of both the electric field, and the magnetic one. They are inseperable(sp?)
Your statement about a wire passing signal ignores the fact that a wire has inductance, therefore a reactance.CJ: ""Yet you failed to correlate how E & H affect or NOT affect the sonics of wires & cables. A totally moot diversion from the sonic issue.""
Re-read the posts..CJ: ""With capactance involved, how can you expect light speed transfer of a signal along a coax even with theoretically vacuum as dielectric?""
Go through the equations, you will understand.
The permittivity of a vacuum is not 1, nor is it zero. There is a specific number associated with it, that being 8.854 12-12 F/m. The equation for capacitance requires that term and the relative permittivity..for example, a flat plate capacitor equation is:
C = (εr εo Area )/distanceIf you use a vacuum, εr is equal to 1. If you use nitrogen gas at 68 F, εr is equal to 1.000580. I leave it to you if you wish, to calculate the difference in prop velocity for a coaxial cable constructed of either dielectric.
CJ: ""Then you diverted even out of wack on speaker cable vs speaker energy storage. What's that to do with ICs the original poster inquired?""
All cables coax or otherwise, will store reactive energy when transferring signal. For a distributed storage composed of two mechanisms, those being capacitive and inductive, the equations for the overall transfer analysis are rather daunting. It is much better to consider the total energy storage within the system, and then lump that into a worst case analysis of effect. This is made easier by the fact that both mechanisms are lagging mechanisms.The graphs are rather interesting, too bad they cannot be posted here. I'd post the relevant equations, but you seem to have serious issues with equations being posted on a technically oriented forum..??
CJ: ""Let me quote a statement from the published paper:
"The shape, diameter & spacing of the conductors and shields determine the capacity between them. Coaxial cables are a special application version of a single shielded conductor and may be treated in the SAME way."""Pulling out of context quotes like this is useless. From your quote, I can't tell if they are talking about the current carrying capacity, the capacity of the wire as a tension member, or the capacitance. Nonetheless, your understanding of free space permittivity, propagation, and coaxial propagation needs to include all aspects of e/m theory, not just culling out of context things which were simplified for the reader within a specific context.
CJ: ""A bunch of formulae would not necesssarily help in situation like this where the original poster was seeking for simple answers.""A formula was required to explain to you where you erred in vacuum capacitance vs a non zero mass dielectric. A formula is required to determine the differential localization sensitivity of humans with two channel stimulus.
Formula's can be our friend..but you must use the correct one..
Cheers, John
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Follow Ups
- ok, I'm back to discuss your other "stuff" - jneutron 07:01:43 04/05/06 (3)
- Glad you "adire" me. - taking the simplified way. - cheap-Jack 12:41:26 04/05/06 (2)
- Silly guy..I said I admire your taking the effort..sheesh - jneutron 13:39:27 04/05/06 (0)
- Correct: it should read "admire" in the caption. (nt) - cheap-Jack 12:47:57 04/05/06 (0)
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