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RE: Tweeter difference problem with 3.3Rs and more

Posted by Davy (A) on September 13, 2010 at 15:57:28

In Reply to: RE: Tweeter difference problem with 3.3Rs and more posted by Satie on September 13, 2010 at 13:54:49:

Hi Satie,
Thanks for all the help and advice again, - really appreciate it, - I’ll have a look to see if I have any other valves as well as a Mullard ECC83 I can send you, - I think I’ve got an unused Brimar ECC83 as well knocking around. In the Yaqin phono stage the Mullard sounds too bloated and thick as it’s a very heavy sounding phono stage! The lighter sounding chinese 12AX7, 12AU7s actualyl sound more suited in the bloated sounding Yaqin!

Thanks for the info on the Crossover, - that’s a relief. I see there is a bit of difference in the bass cap value and that’s what you are talking about with the slight ½ tone change. But does my internal crossover not being exactly the same as either of these schematics matter at all from the mid/treble point on view? I don’t think so as the value change is very slight. The original schematic used 20uF and 53uF caps in the internal crossover and the later version used 17uF and 50uF, but like I say mine uses 20uF and 50uF.

Re buying used cartridges our philosophies are the same. I would not spend that much money on a cartridge. The DL-S1 would be the same price used here, - maybe about £400 and I probably would not even spend that much on a new cartridge let alone a used one. Maybe £300 for a new Denon DL304 would be my absolute limit really. The retipped Troika was the most expensive cartridge I have bought so far, - and that was £330. I did not pay for the retpping myself (which is a good job, - its cost about £300 alone now!), - it had recently been done by Expert stylus then the guy I bought it from unluckily had lost his job so had to sell all his gear. I recouped the cost of buying this cartridge by selling a used original Troika (with the original tip) for £400 and a Linn Karma for £250 (both on Ebay of course!). I had got hold of both of them thrown in with used LP12s.

The paratrace tip on the retipped Troika is the business according to Expert stylus as although it does slightly change the sound of the cartridge (it becomes slightly more analytical than the original Troika) you get more treble extension but crucially as well the cartridge tracks much better with the improved tip and lighter VTFs are possible too. The original stylus is a poor tracker. Expert used an extended contact tip for many years for retipping but switched entirely to the paratrace tip in recent years as it does everything much better. I quite liked the original Troika I had but I thought selling it and keeping the Expert Troika was a much better idea for the longer term.

Yes I noticed the the Technics has a full sound like you describe. And indeed there is no midbass bloat like there is on the pre-cirkus LP12. The problem with the Denon DL304 is it is lacking in the midbass a bit, - so the LP12s mid bass issue actually helps balance things out I think. Similarly the Troika has a prodigious mid bass (in fact the whole bass region is pretty strong) and I think it’s ironically far better suited for the Technics than the LP12.

Wanted to ask did you ever have any experience of the Benz cartridges at all? As I know a place here that can sell them nearly at half the UK retail price.
They can sell an ACE for £300 and a Glider for £400. Again I would rather not spend that much if possible but they are supposed to be very good cartridges. I know Andy has a Benz Ebony but thats well out of my price range at around £2000!

Thanks for the moral support for the repair, - its very tedious, - you need a couple of free days to do and get it over with in my opinion. I am doing it from time to time in the evenings and the first speaker is not finished yet! (have to put the sock back, staple, put tweeter back on!) and its been over a week! When I’ve done this I might have a look at the 2.7s sometime, - its tedious but at least I will be more confident what I’m doing them.
I am in two minds as to whether to laminate over the DAP repair, - I don’t have any miloxane or anything similar. Perhaps I should hold of stapling the sock up for the time being until I decide whether I need it or not. I’ve read that the DAP can hold on its own and you don’t need to laminate but I should research a bit more to make doubly sure.

The newer Rega Apollo with the class A output stage is definitely a better sounding player than the Planet (which was a good player in itself like you say). The Apollo really is the business for a budget player as far as I’ve read, - really considered to be the best thing available up to the price point of the Saturn. Your insights into getting a good transport (a older generation higher spec DVD player) then getting a good DAC and modifying it are very cost effective, as you are right things depreciate so much on the digital market. But I think the Rega Apollo or Saturn are actually great used buys as the values do not seen to depreciate much if at all with these Rega CD player, - Like you say the planet still sells for considerable money (especially in the US) and its well over 10 years old now. So a used Apollo for about £300 might be a good choice for me if I can live without the digital ins. Of course like you say the transport/DAC option would be cheaper but the Apollo is less hassle and I’d be pretty confident of it holding its value. The only reason for going for the 840C would be for the digital ins, - I read on forums here of people going to places where they sell both the Apollo and 840C and after hearing the Apollo the potential buyer asked “can I hear the 840C now?” and the general answer is “don’t bother”! As obviously the Apollo is better sounding!

Thanks for the interesting info on the Japanese Golden era. With so much decent potential used stuff over there I think Yahoo Japan is actually quite a good place to look for used kit, - you can use a service like Kuboten or Japonica market to buy the stuff on your behalf and send onto you. Though there is a fee it is not high. Really top of my list is the Denon AU-S1 transformer as if I could get one for a good price it would be a better buy than a used DL-S1 in the respect its not a perishable item. I can test it against my “head” and sell it on for similar money if its not as good. Will have to think what other kit to look for. Like we both know there are load of decent Japanese DD turntables that are highly over engineered of course. But I’d probably be a bit uncomfortable about a TT travelling that far! And teh Technics decks are very godo and readily availabel outside Japan (well obviously the 1200/1210 MK2 is at least) Do you think that some of those real battlshipe 70/80s japanese turntables - like the the top Luxmans, Denons, Sansuis etc, would offer a big improvement over the Technics decks?

Many thanks for the tip on the cleaning RE swelling with Alcohol. I have just got some microfibre cloths from a local shop. The problem with the Disco antistat solution is they recommended you leave it to air dry. This takes about ten minutes. I guess if the solution contains IPA (which I am sure it does) this is a bit risky as it could be prone to swelling the vinyl. So would a good plan be to wash in the Disco using the stock solution. Wipe off the solution quickly with microfibre and then wash in distilled water afterwards and then microfibre again and then air dry completely? Or is the extra rinsing stage in the water not needed if I am wiping the disco solution off with the microfibre cloths?
Thanks for the info on stylus tip cleaning. If I am going for the good record and distilled water approach how much water should I put on the record for this purpose?

All the best,
Colin

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