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RE: Tweeter difference problem with 3.3Rs and more

Posted by Davy (A) on September 3, 2010 at 04:58:32

In Reply to: RE: Tweeter difference problem with 3.3Rs and more posted by Satie on September 3, 2010 at 01:19:41:

Thanks Satie,
OK will go for the 2K 0.6 metal film resistor. I assume the 2.2K 2W resistor would slightly off the right value?. I can always upgrade the resistors later, - maybe for some flashy ones!

Yeah I’m not looking forward to the DAP repair, - it means I will not be using the 3.3Rs for a while and can’t continue all this fun with the crossover stuff. I took the 3.3Rs out of the way last night and put the 2.7QRs back. Played them, - they are indeed a bit more coherent but I personally prefer the 3.3Rs (in my room at least), - the 3.3Rs have a much more extended top end. which is hard to live without. The 2.7QRs are a bit muted at the top - perhaps though in a bigger room they would fare better and maybe with upgraded crossover too.

Anyway,- yeah I will do some photos as I repair so people can see them as a guide. Will start on Sunday most probably!

Thanks for the tip on the SPL calibration, - will check online for a calibration curve. Thanks for the info on the Steeophile CDS, - will get the right one.
I agree the DCX should be upgraded after I’ve settled on my first all PLLXO so I have something good to use for a while. (I’ve been checking out those cermet pots and wirewound pots you recommended too, - have seen some Bourne Cermet pots on Ebay, - ,might go for them, - what value pot should I use?)
Anyway remember I emailed Audiosmile a few weeks ago asking about what type of transformers they used in the platinum upgrade, - no reply yet, so I might call them soon. This device needs to be upgrade, - then you’re right, - if it works well then and is hiss free and sounds good I can choose whether to using it for the bass with the PLLXO HP or just keep it for experimenting.

My word that Dayton Wright looks like a very serious piece of kit!, - 37dB gain too, - will have to keep an eye out for one myself, - looks at those parts inside!, - it looks like a bomb or something! That’s a lot of gain, - possibly too much for these 0.2mV carts even?! Like I say if I send you “the Head” step up to try out as well, - it has three gain settings 20db (1:10) 22db (1:12.5) and 26dB (1:20). The Audio Innovations T2 has 28dB and about 32dB I think.

Well I tried the Technics this morning, - all I can say is wow, - this is really good. I frist tried it with the Shure M73HE cartridge. Well not really but but there is a serious problem for me here with this MM cartridge, - it’s the treble. There is that MM peak at 12K or so I think it is and not much extension above that. I’ve been used to MCs for so long that don’t have this MM characteristic is was very hard to listen to for me, - its so obvious. So I mounted the retipped Troika on the arm. Wow, - the Troika is an amazing combo with this deck, - it sounds so good. There’s refinement, dynamics, super bass, great extension at both ends, - its brilliant. This deck is so much more dynamic than the LP12. In some ways the LP12 is a bit more refined and subtly detailed but the compromise is the huge loss of dynamics with it. The Technics is far superior in my opinion, - such a better overall compromise. And I haven’t even tried your arm damping scheme yet, - will do that and report how I get on.

I’ve noticed the 1700MK2 sounds quite different from the Lencos I had, - can’t put my finger on it,- I think the Technics is just a better all rounder , - that’s my hunch, - its been a while since I heard a Lenco though. This Technics is far better than the Garrard 401 I had for a while, - the treble was too off the pace for me, - the treble on the 1700 MK2 is much clearer and a lot more modern sounding. Maybe I had a bad example Garrard though I’m not sure, - but it was in a good quality plinth.

I’ve noticed many times with the LP12 before is that it sounds pretty good to me using my headphones (my main pair are Sennheiser HD250IIs) but every time I use the LP12 on speakers, - whether the Proacs or Maggies, - it just sounds so lifeless and undynamic, - just can’t listen to it on speakers. I can only listen to CD on the speakers. Not sure why there is this difference. I’ve not tried the Technics on the speakers yet (only headphones so far) but I am sure it’s a lot better suited with the better dynamics. I mean the dynamics on the Technics sound at least as good to me as what you get from CD. Maybe if I had Naim phono stage/amps the LP12 would sound OK on the speakers but with my current kit it does not rock at all through the speakers!

You need to hear this Troika on your deck, - it works really well in my opinion, - even on the stock arm, - its medium compliance so it’s a good match for the stock arm I guess. I LOVE the VTA on the fly, - that feature is so useful too.
I am sure the Garrot is many times above these cheap MMs like the Shure, - but if it still has that characteristic peaky MM treble?, - I’m not sure if I could personally live with a charateristic like that in the long term (even if its slight too). I will be mighty interested to see how you get on with these MC that probably have a less peaky and more extended top end, and to hear if you prefer one of them or the Garrot.

There is a problem with the 1600MK2 I bought as the guy I bought it from gave me the wrong IBAN no for the bank transfer to pay for it!. So will have to wait a while for the money to be refunded to me before I can repay him!! I was thinking it’s a little silly having two of these decks, - especially as this 1700Mk2 I just got only cost me £85 (such a bargain!). But they are so good even if I am paying £180 for the other one its still a bargain in my opinion, and I get the another headshell too which is very useful. Not sure about keeping two of the same deck in the long term though, - I’ve been through this when I’ve had two LP12s before, - its nice to have a back up and spare, but you can only use one at a time, - it’s a bit silly having one sitting around doing nothing you could sell on.

I am going to love trying the DL304 on this deck too (when it arrives). Not sure how it will match, - I guess in stock form the arm is a little heavy for the highish compliance DL304 (the Dl304 is not high high compliance like a V15 for example, but its still on the higher compliance side). I have some foam damping sheets I can try on the arm and I will of course study your foil mod and try that out too. I really need the other headshell before trying the DL304, - don’t really want to mount the Troika off this headshell now I have it set up. I have the Troika set up for Baerwald alignment, - guessed that was best as that’s what I used on the LP12, so it probably better for the tip to be wearing in the same places. I guess I can send you the carts already mounted in the headshells then you can then install then on your arm and put your tags from your cable on. The Troika is a bit unusual as it has flying cartridge leads (there are no pins on the cartridge itself), - so you will need some pin adaptors for your arm cable tags.

I’ve only tried the Quad 99s MC and MM phono stages (with “the Head” transformer) so far, - not tried my Yaqin MM valve phono stage yet. The Quad 99 has very good SS phono stages though. From what I am hearing, - “the Head” transformer is a real class act, - it got a high bandwidth sound and the lower gain options are better in use than the AI T2 (despite the lower gain) as with the T2 I find the Troika sounds a bit shut in at the top. That’s not to say the T2 is bad, - its quite similar sounding and very good too, but with the “the head” you can fine tune and use one of the lower gain settings to increase the loading and get more top end if you like, - so that’s very useful to have three useable immedate loading options on this transformer that all sound different (liek I say you can fine tune with parallel resistors on the secondary too). I would be surprised if you think “the Head” is no good! Its very heavy, - at least 4-5kg or so! Especially for its size, - you think, - that’s what a car would be like if it was crushed up very tightly!
Here are some pics of one on this page
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:j0MPjxExpdgJ:theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D2172+"the+head"+paravicini+transformer&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

I hear what you say about the Technics arm cable, - am going to look into replacing it.
I think its might be better to give a used 1200/1210 a miss as you will never know if its been used for DJ use!, - I guess this other 1600 MK2 is a better buy still (despite the £180 price) as it unlikely to have been used for DJing and from what I have read and what you’ve told me, - these 1600/1700/1800 MK2 decks do sound better than the 1200 series due to the suspension they have. I have head the SL1200 before at some friends places, - hard to tell, - different set up etc, - but I am sure the 1700Mk2 does sound better.

Oiling? Hmm not done that yet, - what oil should you use? Where do you apply it, - had a look at the service manual but could not see anything. I might need to adjust the suspension too, - it’s a bit high on the left had side. Just one further question, - I guess the 1700MK2 uses the same headshell as the 1200 series doesn’t it? There have the same arm don’t they?

Rega arms are very cheap here, - even to buy a used modified one would be pretty cheap. I am quite tempted (when I have two of these decks) to get a Rega to try on one of the decks. If its no good I can sell on. You can get the Origin Live VTA adaptor which is nicely adjustable but I am sure its not adjustable on the fly though…! There is a very skilled arm repair guy here at a place called Audio Origiami, - he is a genius with Tonearms and even makes his owm, - he repaired a few of my tonerams including the Lenco GL59 one. He does his own Rega arm mods, - and they are supposed to be very good.
http://www.audioorigami.co.uk/AO_Rewires/AORewires.htm
http://www.audioorigami.co.uk/C_Feedback/CFeedback.htm
He can put internal damping in an arm and I like the look of some of his Rega mods, - even silver and gold finishes!

Anyway, better do some work!
All the best,
Colin

BTW How many ECC83s does you Melos use in the first gain stage? 1 or 2?

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