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RE: Tweeter difference problem with 3.3Rs and more

Posted by Davy (A) on September 13, 2010 at 04:43:47

In Reply to: RE: Tweeter difference problem with 3.3Rs and more posted by Satie on September 12, 2010 at 16:18:10:

Hi Satie,
Thanks for the advice on the record cleaning. That’s interesting. So soft brush only with alcohol. That could be a problem as the brushes in my disco antistat brushes are quite stiff.
I rewashed several records the disco messed up. I initially used the disco solution again and cleaned with the machine. I let them air dry then rinsed using the disco apparatus and distilled water, then let them dry again for several hours.
This was much better in that the usual nasty residue that accumulates at the stylus when playing record cleaned with the disco solution alone is eliminated, so the rinsing with water seems to have got rid of the residue. But the problem left over is static, - there is a lot of it. Much more than when you just wash with the disco solution alone.
I read that the main way around the static is to vacuum the solution off without having contact with the record. Is this right or is there anything else I can do? If vacuuming is the only answer to the static issue I need to sort something out, - perhaps the Bissel wet vacuum like you suggested, - will that get rid of static with the microfibre cloth?
I am pretty sure the Disco antistat solution uses quite a bit of IPA, - so I am a bit worried it might damage records. I could get a softer brush , but the disco apparatus is very easy to use. Could I make up my own weak alcohol solution?, - say 10-15% IPA in distilled water and use that, (then rinse with water) or would the stiff brittles still be a problem?

After cleaning the records again to be free of residue I am having far less problems with the stylus cleanliness – and I am never going to use that Clearaudio stylus solution again. What a con, - it obviously dissolves the release agent in the vinyl making a residue, - meaning you have to use it literally every five minutes as your stylus gets gummed up and even a stiff brushing won’t remove it without applying more solution!

With your method for cleaning the stylus by playing a wet record,- do you just use distilled water for that or alcohol/water solution? And how much solution do you use?! A bit I guess?!

As for the Quad 99 stuff, - its is very well regarded and has stood the test of time, - its been out since 1999, - they are phasing it out now and replacing it with the “elite series” but apparently the designs/insides of all the pieces are pretty much exactly the same as the 99 series but the components are slightly upgraded. Will have to wait to see how they fare.

The 99 CDP2 is a very well regarded CD player, and it has the digital inputs too, but it’s a fair bit more pricey than the 840C. The 840C soon will be discontinued soon as well (think they are bringing out 850C/750C) so I might look for a used one then.
The 99 range was started with manufacture in the UK, but the manufacture was switched to China in about 2006 so. The 99 preamp I have is an earlier one, - designed and manufactured in the UK it says on the back.
The 99 Preamp is another well regarded item. It is a very good preamp. The only slight issue is the lack of output volts I suppose, but its not as bad as that Quad 66 I had. The phono stage on both MC and MM are very good, and it has the adjustable input sensitivity of three levels on all inputs too. It it pretty light, - if you like I can send you that to try out with the cartridges instead of the 640P, - I could put it in the package without problems. That’s if the voltage output issue of it will be OK?, - I know you like a preamp with high volts.

As for the Rega stuff, - I agree with you on the vinyl and the amps. I had a P3 for a while myself, - you are right, - its quite OK but nothing special, - nothing stands out. But I guess you right on the CD players as not much output is needed. The Apollo is a refinement of the Planet/planet 2000 and is DOES have a Class A output stage as well as the memory buffer. See here http://www.rega.co.uk/html/apollo.htm
Its had rave reviews since it came out. I am seriously tempted to get one, - all he views I have read say its much better than anything else unless you spend a lot more, - and its usually always said as being better than the 840C. Not sure how it stakes up against the Quad but that costs quite a bit more money.
There is also the Rega Saturn that has upgraded caps and stuff in it, - that’s supposed to be even better than the Apollo.
http://www.rega.co.uk/html/Saturn.htm
Again class A output stage, - looks more upgraded too.
Both players are actually cheaper new than when they came out. Rega increased the prices of them a couple of years back but then subsequently decreased the prices of them to cheaper than the original price! So yeah well worth looking at too.

The other option like you say which is very interesting on the CD front is upgrading the output stage on a cheaper player, - sounds interesting. Looking at the specs of the Rega class A output stages do you think I could still get better results upgrading the output stage of a cheap player?
The Apollo is around £300 used here so it is quite a bargain, - that’s cheaper than a used 840C (they usually go for around £400). Just like I say the only drawback is the lack of digital inputs for directly accessing the DAC. But it would be a good buy to test out, - easily resalable used for the same money if I got a used one to try.

Yes it seems the Denon DL-S1 is a very well regarded cartridge along with the 304. Just the price! But I bet its still a very good deal even for the asking price, - I am just a little uncomfortable about spending that much on a perishable item!.
It’s a real shame about the step up, the Denon AU-S1, - in that there is very little info on how they stack up against the TX103 etc. Some people do have them here though, so maybe I could try to track down an evangelical owner (to borrow your expression!) and they also do turn up on Yahoo Japan used, - as do the cartridges. I have not look for a while, - will take a peek.
When you say talk about the Japanese “golden age” do you mean the 70 and 80s?

So is that JBL Century the top model everyone talks about or are there some other vintage ones that are better that? I agree with you top that KEFs, Montior Tannoys and others would be a good bet to try if I can find them cheap (which is unlikely). Not too familiar with Harbeths and I’ve never tried an Audinote speaker.

The Celestion 66 is very well regarded, - I am surprised you have not heard of it before. What I have heard is that amps of the day when it was made (back in the 70s) were unable to control it well due to the back EMF of the passive radiator, but its having a resurgence now with all the SS amps around with high damping factor etc. And its more well regarded now that it was when it came out. I was originally launched as a studio design which is also partly why it was not so well known at the time in the HI-Fi arena. The prices are rising all the time, - it’s a similar price used to the small used Tannoy monitor golds. The 66 is a great speaker, - you are right its pretty big. I heard one once at a friends house (a MK2), - different from the Maggies of course but I would say it’s a great speaker and amongst the best I’ve personally heard, - very good, solid and powerful bass and a great mid. Top is pretty good too. Its pretty sensitive and easy to drive save for the back EMF issue. I heard once of a dealer saying he bought a used pair from a place that had been used as disco speakers!

I started on the speaker Delam repair yesterday and have done one so far! Not put the sock back yet though. It very tedious, but at least I know roughly how to do it now.
I also managed to adjust the Technics suspension, - it’s a little fiddly, - quite hard to fit the socket in the holes!
Not tried the DL304 on the Technics yet due the dealm repair, suspension adjustment and the re cleaning of the records but I am going to try it today or tomorrow and will let you know how it sounds. The Troika sounds great on the Technics in my opinion. Very well balanced. I am a little worried the DL304 might sound too light. It sounds very well balanced on my Pre-cirkus LP12 but I think that’s because the two items have extreme balances and they help balance each other out, - the Denon DL304 is light sounding and the pre-cirkus LP12/Ittok is quite big and bloated sounding

I played Rachmaninov Piano concerto NO1 (Ashkenazy/LSO 70s version) on the Technics with Troika,- With the tracking at about 1.65 grams I could not hear any distortion on the big swings. With lower VTF than this there was a bit of distortion at times.

As for the DG pressing, - sorry to hear about that problem with the VTA!, - With both the 304 and Troika they are much lower profile than the taller Garrot, - you will have plenty of adjustment left with records like these.

As for the Crossover with the 3.3R, - I found out something else, - after looking more closely it seems those two schematics for the 3.3Rs on the MUG site and because the 3.3R had a revision and the earlier ones have slightly different crossover to the newer ones.
http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/tweaks/xover/3.3xover.html
The original one has a 53uf cap on the mid, 20uf on the tweeter and 275uf in the bass (in the crossover box).
The later version has 50uf on the mid, 17uf on the tweeter and 225uf in the bass.
How big are these differences?
The problem is, having a look at the internal crossover on my speaker (I can see it now I got the sock off), mine one has a 50uF cap on the mid and a 20uF cap on the tweeter, so its unlike the two versions posted here, - this is odd!, - is this likely to make much difference?

All the best,
Colin

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