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RE: Tweeter difference problem with 3.3Rs and more

Posted by Davy (A) on September 6, 2010 at 09:47:52

In Reply to: RE: Tweeter difference problem with 3.3Rs and more posted by Satie on September 6, 2010 at 05:40:23:

HI Satie,
Glad to hear the weekend vampire tradition is alive and well on the other side of the Atlantic too!

Yes got the 304, - mounted it in the Ittok/LP12 first (will wait before trying it in Technics as I don’t have the other headshell yet.
Its so uncanny, - this 304 must be from the same batch as the first one I had 4 years ago (that one sounded sublime), - serial nos 2343 and 2344!, - what are the chances of that?! I had a newer one (which again I broke), - 45** and that one did not sound quite as nice.
This one sounds magic, - and maybe possibly has a bit more bass than my 2343 serial one. Same great treble extension and transparency. You are going to like this a lot I reckon. It does sound better IMO than my 2343 serial one because its fuller sounding, but I am not exactly sure if that’s due to the cartridge being different or the LP12/ittok being different, - coupled be the later. This LP12 sounded more bloated than others I’ve had – it matches the 304 quite well!. I personally think its better than the Troika, - the transients are far better. The Troika is a little fuller but it does not as good in my opinion.

“the Head” step up is a great device from what I have observed using these cartridges so far. The middle tap (the one labelled 15 ohm with 1:13 step up ratio (loading about 270ohms) gives near perfect loading for the Denon 304 in my opinion, - the 1:20 ratio input reduces the treble too much and the 1:10 ratio is too bright. The 1:13 on the step up sounds very similar in brightness level to using an active headamp at 100ohms with the Denon 304, which is the optimal active loading for this cartridge IMO. The Troika (despite its lower internal impedance of 3 ohms) sounds best on the 1:10 stepup ratio of “the head” (the input labelled 40 ohms) in my opinion (which gives 470ohms loading into a 47K MM stage) , - that’s the only setting that gives enough treble with the Troika. With an active headamp too its better to load the Troika higher, - Naim use 560 ohms with their MC stages for example. It sounds too rolled off on a lower setting. Perhaps when you had that demo many years ago they were using a headamp/mc active stage or step up with MM stage where the loading was too low?, - 100 ohms setting is of course very standard for an active MC stage, so maybe that’s what you heard, - it too low for a Troika, you will hear a full sound but not much treble!

I tried the carts with the Audio Innovations T2 step up transformers as well. The T2 is very good sounding as well - not that much basic difference in the actual quality of the sound vs the head IMO but the problem using the T2 step up for both these cartridges is the loading even on the lower gain setting (the 1:22.5 ratio setting) is too low, - only about 90 ohms. And on the higher gain 1:45 setting its only about 25 ohms so that input is unusable with the Denon 304. Anyway even on the low gain setting the two cartridges both have a slightly rolled off treble, - it still sounds fine, but “the Head” is far more flexible because of its more useable lower gain/higher loading taps in the case of these two cartridges. It’s a shame the secondary ratio is so high on the T2 or there isn’t a lower option. I am not sure if I should keep it, as I now have “the head”, -but maybe other cartridges would match well with the T2 and you could even use a cartridge like an Audionote IO (0.05mV output) on the T2s higher 1:45 ratio setting and get enough useable gain. Of course your Dayton Wright would also have enough gain too, but I’m sure that perhaps with a cartridge of that low output there would be too much hiss with an active Headamp, - a step up transformer I guess is the only sensible option with a 0.05mV output cart.

I know you are a gain freak so I’ll send you the T2 as well to play with, - will be interesting to see which you prefer but I think with these cartridges you’ll prefer “the head” due to the better loading despite the slightly lower gain. Obviously you can only use the Troika (not the 304) on the high gain 1:45 setting of the T2 (as the Troikas internal impedance of 3 ohms is low enough). But still I think you will find there is not enough treble with that combo, - like I say the 1:10 setting of “the head” sounds much better in the treble with the Troika IMO despite the much lower gain.

So anyway,- I tried the Troika on the Technics again after hearing the LP12/304 combo. Its different but still very good in different way (when the Troika is loaded right!), - I think the Troika works nicely with the Technics arm. I prefer the sound of the 304 on the LP12/Ittok though due top the higher transparency and better transients the 304 has. But the Technics needs the suspension adjusting like I say and I’ve not had the arm cable damped yet. The Technics does sound more dynamic, - but that 304, - it really is something. Can’t wait to get the other headshell and try it on the Technics. I am expecting it to sound different from how it sounds on the LP12 of course, but I hope it will still retain its great virtues and it might make an even better combo. Will obviously have to use some sort of make-shift arm damping when using the 304 with the Technics.

Anyway, - when I’ve tested out the 304 on the Technics I’ll ship all this gear to you, - within a week or so I would think. Will let you know. Hopefully this 304 is not too knackered, - the guy said 150 hours but it might be more, - but at least I hope it will give you some good idea of what this cartridge sounds like. If you don’t like the sound initially (which I doubt!) give your ears a little time to adjust.

Thanks for the tip on adjusting the suspension, - I’ll try to get the right sized socket today, - if not I’ll try your suggestion

Many thanks for the info on the arm cabling. Yes obviously the cardas litz is very thin wire. I might try your cable scheme actually as I’m getting two of these decks, , - which thicker cardas cable do you use again? Is the foil just kitchen foil or something more exotic?! I don’t need the antiskate option but I suppose it would need to be built in as the cable has to go somewhere, - so I could still build it in a put the antiskate on the arm on zero I guess?

Thanks for the info on those pots, - that’s great. A 100K pot for the HP has more than sufficient adjustment and 200K for the LP should be just fine as well.
You are right, - I might as well go for something more practical and get a pot with a proper knob as you are right the screwdriver trimmer are a silly option really despite the lower price. Which of those two pots you listed would sound better/, - the Bourns or the Precision? I will look for them here. Is it possible at all to get dual ones at all? (for the convenience?!). Then I can still use my balance control on the Quad if necessary.

All the best and thanks again,
Colin

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