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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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In Reply to: Right. So the only defensible DBT would have solitary subjects posted by Al Sekela on May 18, 2006 at 14:38:27:
You are absolutely right. Multiple people in a test results very clear in a "herd response" that is usually much worse than what each individual does by his or herself.Your argument is born out by quite a bit of real data.
As I've said many times, DBT's are for SCIENCE, for proving that something SOUNDS different.
For preference, whatever... If you like the color of the cable (just for example), that is an entirely valid reason to buy it. You have to live with it.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - real_jj 03:18:52 05/17/06 (168)
- The problem is your ears are attached to a brain. - tomservo 08:59:38 05/18/06 (4)
- Excellent post. Thank you. nt. - Lynn 19:37:53 05/18/06 (0)
- Right. So the only defensible DBT would have solitary subjects - Al Sekela 14:38:27 05/18/06 (1)
- Absolutely! - real_jj 00:49:54 05/19/06 (0)
- Some are...some only have EARS...(nt) - mkuller 11:21:35 05/18/06 (0)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - Paulhoff 05:53:13 05/18/06 (25)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - kerr 07:07:13 05/18/06 (24)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - Paulhoff 12:42:03 05/18/06 (23)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - kerr 14:30:39 05/18/06 (14)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - andy19191 00:50:34 05/19/06 (13)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - Paulhoff 06:16:36 05/19/06 (1)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - andy19191 07:06:41 05/19/06 (0)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - kerr 04:50:51 05/19/06 (10)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - andy19191 06:03:19 05/19/06 (9)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - kerr 09:14:56 05/19/06 (8)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - andy19191 12:52:53 05/19/06 (7)
- Why that could be. - kerr 13:45:09 05/19/06 (6)
- Re: Why that could be. - andy19191 01:00:20 05/20/06 (5)
- Re: Why that could be. - kerr 07:09:51 05/20/06 (3)
- Re: Why that could be. - andy19191 02:48:44 05/21/06 (2)
- Re: Why that could be. - kerr 06:02:00 05/21/06 (1)
- Re: Why that could be. - andy19191 04:41:13 05/22/06 (0)
- Re: Excellent, someone has taken Zen - geoffkait 02:43:13 05/20/06 (0)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - andy19191 13:16:09 05/18/06 (7)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - Paulhoff 16:54:57 05/18/06 (5)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - andy19191 00:30:26 05/19/06 (4)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - kerr 04:53:46 05/19/06 (3)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - andy19191 06:57:45 05/19/06 (1)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - kerr 09:11:13 05/19/06 (0)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - Paulhoff 06:20:17 05/19/06 (0)
- Sorry - I should have just let you respond (nt) - kerr 14:31:46 05/18/06 (0)
- Funny! - kerr 17:13:43 05/17/06 (0)
- Would you care to share your DBT methodology with us? - E-Stat 16:43:42 05/17/06 (51)
- Google BS1116.1 - real_jj 00:30:37 05/18/06 (18)
- Description easy to find - E-Stat 05:27:45 05/18/06 (17)
- I know an english version exists, I've read it. - real_jj 00:51:56 05/19/06 (16)
- For a "nominal fee" of course :) (nt) - E-Stat 07:14:17 05/19/06 (15)
- Maybe after he reveals his secret German DBT methodology... - mkuller 13:04:18 05/20/06 (14)
- Inquiring minds want to know! (nt) - E-Stat 17:00:56 05/20/06 (13)
- Pathetic, both of you - real_jj 13:03:10 05/21/06 (12)
- My mistake - E-Stat 20:28:22 05/21/06 (11)
- Please show evidence for your professional accusation - real_jj 07:46:05 05/22/06 (10)
- Oh brother... - E-Stat 10:30:41 05/22/06 (7)
- You going to file your accusation or not? - real_jj 09:26:02 05/23/06 (6)
- "Filing accusations" is your thing, not mine - E-Stat 10:02:28 05/23/06 (5)
- Your accusation follows. - real_jj 11:58:29 05/23/06 (4)
- Let's say someone asks you - E-Stat 12:12:49 05/23/06 (3)
- I'm not a professional chef... - real_jj 07:43:55 05/24/06 (2)
- Well, had you followed my instructions - E-Stat 08:27:13 05/24/06 (1)
- Re: Well, had you followed my instructions - real_jj 16:07:42 05/24/06 (0)
- If you're a real expert... - mkuller 09:26:41 05/22/06 (1)
- Re: If you're a real expert... - real_jj 09:44:09 05/22/06 (0)
- Curious, if you reject blind methods, what’s your methodology? - Caymus 17:56:47 05/17/06 (31)
- Expectation biases go both ways - E-Stat 09:05:15 05/18/06 (3)
- Perhaps, but that's not all there is to it. - Pat D 06:39:39 05/19/06 (2)
- You would be right... - E-Stat 17:02:07 05/20/06 (1)
- You really can be vicious . . . - Pat D 20:53:09 05/25/06 (0)
- Safeguards Against Expectation Biases Aren't Needed - thetubeguy1954 05:50:10 05/18/06 (9)
- Re: Safeguards Against Expectation Biases Aren't Needed - real_jj 13:04:01 05/21/06 (0)
- Re: Safeguards Against Expectation Biases Aren't Needed - mls-stl 16:22:17 05/18/06 (0)
- So you believe you are a superior being above normal human frailties? - Caymus 10:11:16 05/18/06 (0)
- What do you have to lose? - Lynn 06:53:32 05/18/06 (5)
- Re: What do you have to lose? - thetubeguy1954 08:37:04 05/18/06 (4)
- Re: "Music gives biologists fits." (Just as audio gives physicists fits?) - $orabji! 14:53:32 05/21/06 (0)
- For the record... - Lynn 19:18:55 05/18/06 (2)
- Re: For the record... - Pat D 21:20:08 05/25/06 (0)
- I rarely listen to my system alone - Caymus 11:28:24 05/19/06 (0)
- Listening? Heaven forbid! nt - Norm 20:39:21 05/17/06 (16)
- DBT -) Listening... Sighted test -) listening, seeing, guessing, imagining... - real_jj 00:31:55 05/18/06 (15)
- SO YOU SAY, BUT WHO CARES WHAT YOU SAY? nt - Norm 06:23:48 05/18/06 (14)
- Nothing can beat malignant ignorance, Norm - real_jj 00:52:50 05/19/06 (2)
- What is malignant ignorance? - Norm 07:16:07 05/19/06 (1)
- "I DON'T CARE" - real_jj 07:44:45 05/24/06 (0)
- Actually quite a few of us do, and JJ makes a lot more sense than faith based audio fanatics. nt. - Lynn 06:55:36 05/18/06 (10)
- And quite a few of us don't - Dave Pogue 07:36:01 05/18/06 (9)
- Apparently you do since you are replying to this thread. nt. - Lynn 20:27:23 05/18/06 (0)
- Re: And quite a few of us don't - Pat D 07:48:26 05/18/06 (7)
- Yes, Pat, we know - Dave Pogue 08:23:43 05/18/06 (6)
- Ping: WELLFED! Here's another one! - Pat D 09:25:16 05/18/06 (5)
- Like I said, Pat - Dave Pogue 09:41:18 05/18/06 (4)
- Re: Like I said, Pat - Pat D 13:20:42 05/18/06 (3)
- Again, we don't have to prove them. We are disinterested in proving them. nt - Norm 17:41:59 05/18/06 (2)
- Then don’t whine when people don’t believe your amazing hearing boasts (nt) - Caymus 18:41:14 05/18/06 (1)
- When have I whined and since when have I boasted? Still delusional? nt - Norm 18:51:33 05/18/06 (0)
- I suspect this is REALLY a troll, and it worked. nt - Norm 14:30:21 05/17/06 (1)
- How "republican" (present-day) of you... - real_jj 00:29:57 05/18/06 (0)
- Call the Police..... Call 9-1-1.... Call the Pentagon.... - Todd Krieger 13:32:04 05/17/06 (5)
- Interpol! The Ascended Masters! nt - clarkjohnsen 13:47:02 05/17/06 (4)
- Or all the sea fishermen you know - that's quite a lot of chum...(nt) - mkuller 14:30:34 05/17/06 (3)
- I see the conspiaracy theorists are at it again... - real_jj 00:42:23 05/18/06 (2)
- No, We're Doing the Conspiring..... - Todd Krieger 11:44:05 05/18/06 (1)
- Since you admit it, it's not a conspiracy... - real_jj 01:05:56 05/19/06 (0)
- Most every audiophile who has tried them has found them useless...(nt) - mkuller 10:54:41 05/17/06 (8)
- Please do not speak for 'most' audiophiles. nt. - Lynn 20:57:56 05/17/06 (4)
- Au contrere... - mkuller 11:25:42 05/18/06 (3)
- I suggest.... - Lynn 19:26:22 05/18/06 (0)
- Re: Au contrere... - andy19191 13:24:07 05/18/06 (1)
- By Jove! I think you've got it. - Pat D 06:43:40 05/19/06 (0)
- Most pro folks who are trained to use it correctly value them highly nt) - Dan Banquer 11:11:23 05/17/06 (2)
- I'm just a regular Joe and DBT have changed the way I listen to audio (nt) - Lambda 11:30:13 05/17/06 (1)
- Perhaps, an exception can be made for trained regular Joes. (nt) - soulfood 08:24:09 05/18/06 (0)
- It's hard to find a way to scoff at this ... - Dave Pogue 08:51:43 05/17/06 (17)
- Re: Make that 13 angry men - geoffkait 10:17:32 05/17/06 (16)
- No, Geoff, it's impossible to get "steamed" over nothing - Dave Pogue 11:40:04 05/17/06 (15)
- Re: Ouch! Nothing like getting chastised by - geoffkait 15:11:29 05/17/06 (2)
- Ooh, what a stinging retort! - Dave Pogue 17:03:39 05/17/06 (1)
- Re: I suppose I should feel... - geoffkait 03:50:18 05/18/06 (0)
- Re: No, Geoff, it's impossible to get "steamed" over nothing - musman 12:01:03 05/17/06 (11)
- Re: sounds like a personal problem... - geoffkait 14:09:03 05/17/06 (10)
- geoffkait Im not to stupid I never purchased any of your crap. - musman 05:02:20 05/18/06 (7)
- Re: uh, oh, somebody's channeling - geoffkait 06:29:17 05/18/06 (6)
- Where's your medical license, Kait? - real_jj 00:55:47 05/19/06 (5)
- Re: I have a bit of experience as - geoffkait 05:29:16 05/19/06 (4)
- Re: *I have a bit of experience as a stand-up comic* - musman 13:09:53 05/19/06 (3)
- Re: Let me see, I'm guessing... - geoffkait 15:18:07 05/19/06 (2)
- Argument from intimidation - musman 16:21:54 05/19/06 (1)
- Re: Argument? Is that what this is? - geoffkait 10:16:56 05/20/06 (0)
- I wasn't gonna say it! nt - clarkjohnsen 14:38:55 05/17/06 (1)
- Then don't. nt - Dan Banquer 17:27:44 05/17/06 (0)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - Lynn 07:52:17 05/17/06 (19)
- ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T TRUST THIER EARS USE DBT'S. - thetubeguy1954 09:49:49 05/17/06 (12)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T TRUST THIER EARS USE DBT'S. - mls-stl 18:00:36 05/17/06 (1)
- Great post! - kerr 04:51:40 05/18/06 (0)
- What contradictory nonsense! - Pat D 16:55:15 05/17/06 (4)
- Re: What contradictory nonsense! - thetubeguy1954 10:15:52 05/19/06 (1)
- Don't you remember what you wrote, Tom? - Pat D 15:16:56 05/19/06 (0)
- Re: What contradictory nonsense! - thetubeguy1954 05:58:26 05/18/06 (1)
- So, .... - Lynn 06:36:01 05/18/06 (0)
- I keep telling those guys, give me funding to do the tests you demand, and I'll happily comply. But their money is... - clarkjohnsen 10:13:07 05/17/06 (4)
- Re: I keep telling those guys, give me funding to do the tests you demand, and I'll happily comply. But their money is.. - thetubeguy1954 12:23:11 05/17/06 (3)
- "This seems so simple." Indeed, which is why it eludes most "objectivists." Who, when you think about it... - clarkjohnsen 13:18:20 05/17/06 (2)
- Re: "This seems so simple." Indeed, which is why it eludes most "objectivists." Who, when you think about it... - thetubeguy1954 10:18:58 05/19/06 (1)
- Excellent point... it had eluded me. nt - clarkjohnsen 10:33:10 05/19/06 (0)
- Re: ONLY THOSE WHO USE DBT'S TRULY TRUST THEIR EARS - andy19191 09:19:04 05/17/06 (0)
- It's a nice idea, Lynn.but - jneutron 08:37:42 05/17/06 (0)
- Sighted listening dosn't have to be "pre-conceived" with biases. - cheap-Jack 08:18:18 05/17/06 (3)
- So? - Pat D 15:30:18 05/17/06 (2)
- Pls explain "we are built to percieve differences". (nt) - cheap-Jack 13:22:39 05/18/06 (1)
- Re: Pls explain "we are built to percieve differences". (nt) - Pat D 14:17:27 05/18/06 (0)
- Not to mention, chicks really dig guys who are into DBT (nt) - Bersani 07:45:33 05/17/06 (0)
- A simple question. - cheap-Jack 07:36:59 05/17/06 (7)
- A classic mistake - real_jj 00:23:13 05/18/06 (4)
- Whose mistake of what? - cheap-Jack 12:16:37 05/18/06 (3)
- Re: Whose mistake of what? - Paulhoff 13:04:00 05/18/06 (2)
- They both supplement each other. (nt) - cheap-Jack 13:17:40 05/18/06 (1)
- Two suggestions - real_jj 01:09:02 05/19/06 (0)
- An Even Better Question.... - Todd Krieger 13:20:04 05/17/06 (1)
- An even worse question... - real_jj 00:24:17 05/18/06 (0)
- Re: So, you've resorted... - geoffkait 04:23:47 05/17/06 (19)
- Have you anything to contribute??? - real_jj 04:39:08 05/17/06 (18)
- Re: 12 Angry Men - geoffkait 07:03:43 05/17/06 (17)
- The classic (and shortest) line is, "That can't be!" It's been shouted at the pioneers of discovery... - clarkjohnsen 10:09:37 05/17/06 (15)
- The ungracious antagonists below seem to have been responding to a different post. That's called a straw man argument. n - clarkjohnsen 07:36:25 05/18/06 (1)
- Where's the proof, Clark? - real_jj 05:09:17 05/19/06 (0)
- You ready to prove that , Clark? - real_jj 00:35:37 05/18/06 (0)
- Proven vs. unproven science - Caymus 16:18:45 05/17/06 (0)
- How many pioneers have refused to put their theory to the test ? - Lambda 12:00:28 05/17/06 (10)
- That evades the point. There are the genius discoverers, then there are the... - clarkjohnsen 12:23:47 05/17/06 (9)
- Please... Einstein didn't take the picture... - Lambda 13:05:31 05/17/06 (8)
- You miss the point entirely. - clarkjohnsen 13:11:44 05/17/06 (7)
- Perhaps the point should be missed. - Lynn 21:08:14 05/17/06 (6)
- Re: Perhaps the point should be missed. - mls-stl 11:43:24 05/18/06 (5)
- I agree with your post, but it does not support Clark's position that researchers do not test for themselves. nt. - Lynn 19:33:04 05/18/06 (0)
- Precisely the point. Plus, the naysayers will *still* bray, usually until they take their final breath. nt - clarkjohnsen 12:44:05 05/18/06 (0)
- That's why real scientisis publish their discoveries for peer review - con artists don't - Caymus 12:09:06 05/18/06 (2)
- Re: That's why real scientisis publish their discoveries for peer review - con artists don't - Paulhoff 11:49:58 05/22/06 (0)
- Exactly. nt. - Lynn 19:30:47 05/18/06 (0)
- Just show me the evidence... - real_jj 07:07:03 05/17/06 (1)
Follow Ups
- Absolutely! - real_jj 00:49:54 05/19/06 (0)
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