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Re: Yeah, yeah, we know you don't like Canadian speakers, Harman International speakers, etc.

Where on earth do you get idiocy like the following:

"Wait a minute -- now you want both measurements. The anechoic is used as a predictor of how it will perform in "typical rooms" so is this an accurate prediction or not? If it is an accurate predicition then why would you then want to see the in room measurements. It is your logic that is faulty. This is a simple A B C formula. If A is the anechoic predictting measurement and B and C are "Typical rooms" then if A can predict B and A can also predict C then B can predict C and C can predict B. If of course A cannot really predict B and C then A is ineffective at doing the very thing it claims to be able to do."

If we want to design speakers that sound good in typical listening rooms we must know A) how the speaker performs and B) how that performance is likely to play out in normal listening rooms. When on earth have I said or implied something different? You act as if this is a big surprise, even though I have told you Dr. Toole has done extensive measurements of the performance of speakers both in an anechoic chamber and in listening rooms. He has done extensive blind listening tests in listening rooms, too, another fact you conveniently ignore.

Your A B C logic is totally faulty because measuring the speaker in a room always gives you the speaker plus the room plus the placement. The anechoic chamber (or suspended out door placement) can enable you to get close to what the speaker itself does, and with time gating one can do quasi-anechoic measurements, though less accurately, especially in the lower frequencies. Unless one can separate out what the speaker does from the effects of the room and placement, it becomes extremely difficult to figure out what needs to be changed in the speakers. The point is so elementary that I amazed that you keep trying to avoid it--you've done that for years.

Now, it is you who put in the word "accurate" for prediction, which apparently you want to make mean anything you want it to. You play around with words and silly A B C scenarios but absolutely refuse to think in terms of the things actually involved. What you have totally failed to do is actually look at what the measurements indicate about performance in rooms--and this is described for us laymen in the white papers on the Harman International site--white papers which you say you have read but from which you seem to have retained virtually nothing.

I still reiterate the remarks I made before: if you don't find speaker measurements useful, ignore them. But some of us find them useful in a number of ways.

"Just because you can't use your ears to determine what good sound reproduction is doesn't mean no one else can."

Just where that remark comes from is hard to say. It certainly can't be anything I have said, so it must come from some misunderstandings. For one thing, you ignore the results of extensive listening tests done under Dr. Toole at the NRC and at Harman International, results which have been of great help to the speaker industry in Canada and elsewhere. Dr. Toole's life work has been to relate loudspeaker measurements to how they sound in listening rooms.

Secondly, I have spent a good deal of time auditioning speakers with a variety of program material, which is one good reason why I have been able to find very satisfactory speakers over the years. That's a method I learned from Julian Hirsch, by the way. Another reason for that is that I try to find out everything I can about the performance of the speakers I consider buying and that includes finding objective information about their performance.

I'm glad you like your speakers.
____________________________________________________________
"Nature loves to hide."
---Heraclitus of Ephesus (trans. Wheelwright)

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