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In Reply to: Please qualify your "scientific method".. posted by cheap-Jack on March 14, 2006 at 13:37:49:
The method needed here is one of repeatability.The fact that the claim is subjective matters not one bit. The person that took the test claims to be able to attribute UNIQUE qualities to each of three discs.
Since the 'quality sets' for each disc are unique, the person who performed the first iteration SHOULD be able to repeat the process, and identify the discs similarily in subsequent iterations.
For example. Let's say I gave you three pieces of candy. You claim to be able to tell candy apart. The candies are black licorice, lemon, and grape. In ten trials, you correctly identify all three candies, and you have 100% accuracy. Although taste is subjective, the test conforms to a scientific method - repeatability - which means the following statement is true.
"Jack can consistently tell the difference between black licorice, lemon and grape candies just by tasting them over a short period of time".
This same logic can apply to audibility. Lets start with a basic sine wave test. I ask Jack to sit and listen to three test tones, 100Hz, 4000Hz, and 1600Hz. Jack correctly identifies each tone from the other 10 out of 10 times. THe following statement is then true.
"Jack can consistently tell the difference between since waves that are two octaves apart just by listening to them over a short period of time".
Now. Klaus's buddy CLAIMS to be able to DIFFERENTIATE between discs. Using a selection of terms, albeit subjective, he ASSIGNS these terms in a uniqe combination to EACH DISC. Even though the test was probably done sighted (aka he KNEW when he was changing discs), he did NOT know which disc was which since they were physically identical (unless there was a unique manfuacturing ID stamped on the disc if they were from different batches.)
So if somebody else could LABEL these discs in such a way that Klaus's buddy could not SEE or FEEL, and then repeat his listening tests, keeping TRACK of which terms are being attributed to each disc, we have the SAME test in place that was used for the test tones and the candies.
ALTHOUGH THERE IS SUBJECTIVITY ASSOCIATED WITH AUDIBLITY, AUDIBILITY ITSELF CAN BE PROVEN OR DISPROVEN.
If Klaus's buddy gets even 8 / 10 accuracy I'm gonna suggest we start looking for physical differences in the discs (including magnetisation, radioactivity... NAME IT) to try and EXPLAIN why Klaus's buddy DID HEAR these differences.
But my money is on Klaus's buddy FAILING to beat, say 55% accuracy in such a controlled experiment with a minimum of 10 iterations. 50 percent accuracy is also known as "coin-toss" or "guess" accuracy.
At the very least, this test has the necessary CONTROLS and the use of REPEATABILITY to provide EVIDENCE.
There is no real evidence provided at all in the original claim. Just a claim.
And now I am repeating myself.
Cheers,
Presto
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Follow Ups
- Re: Please qualify your "scientific method".. - Presto 14:17:37 03/14/06 (43)
- Good argument ! (long) - cheap-Jack 09:20:15 03/15/06 (42)
- Re: Good rebuttle. lol - Presto 17:28:22 03/15/06 (38)
- Try to read between the lines, my friend. - cheap-Jack 07:50:19 03/16/06 (37)
- What I would do is simple. - Presto 14:10:09 03/16/06 (36)
- Trust them or not, we hear with our ears. - cheap-Jack 09:09:33 03/17/06 (33)
- When they learn how to shine some ray through wine and tell us exactly how it tastes... - clarkjohnsen 09:17:14 03/17/06 (32)
- Re: When they learn how to shine some ray through wine and tell us exactly how it tastes... - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 10:45:19 03/17/06 (31)
- "We can tell flawed from [good or great]." There you have it, folks. - clarkjohnsen 08:27:53 03/18/06 (30)
- Re: "We can tell flawed from [good or great]." There you have it, folks. - kerr 04:49:18 03/20/06 (1)
- Yes. Thank you! nt - clarkjohnsen 09:27:30 03/20/06 (0)
- Re: a correction - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 00:28:40 03/19/06 (15)
- I too have hung out with wine, beer and coffee people. Never once... - clarkjohnsen 11:32:19 03/19/06 (14)
- Re: I too have hung out with wine, beer and coffee people. Never once... - john curl 16:40:18 03/19/06 (7)
- Re: I too have hung out with wine, beer and coffee people. Never once... - Inmate51 08:01:24 04/12/06 (0)
- What's your evidence, John? - real_jj 17:28:30 03/24/06 (0)
- Take a look below and discover how MKJ has weaseled out of his former, undefendable position. Very amusing. nt - clarkjohnsen 07:59:12 03/21/06 (3)
- Now that's just enough! - real_jj 17:31:34 03/24/06 (2)
- He narrowed his claims down to "research" from the broad ones he made earlier. Because he had to! - clarkjohnsen 09:06:36 03/25/06 (1)
- No, Clark, and that is really, really enough - real_jj 10:34:50 03/25/06 (0)
- Re: I too have hung out with wine, beer and coffee people. Never once... - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 01:10:11 03/20/06 (0)
- Re: I too have hung out with wine, beer and coffee people. Never once... - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 13:30:32 03/19/06 (5)
- This has nothing to do with Larry being an amateur. Nor were my claims false. - clarkjohnsen 09:34:41 03/20/06 (4)
- Re: One point of clarification - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 18:57:32 03/20/06 (0)
- Re: Your claims are false - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 18:17:04 03/20/06 (2)
- Oh, so now it's "wine research". You've narrowed the field of contention dramatically... - clarkjohnsen 07:56:51 03/21/06 (1)
- bullcrap - real_jj 17:34:10 03/24/06 (0)
- Martians regularly visit my apartment... - andy_c 20:24:43 03/18/06 (1)
- Re: Martians regularly visit my apartment... - kerr 04:55:02 03/20/06 (0)
- Well, Clark I agree to a point. - Presto 12:32:27 03/18/06 (9)
- Re: Well, Clark I agree to a point. - theaudiohobby 16:20:17 03/18/06 (8)
- Chris Sommovigo said it elegantly, for us who listen. - clarkjohnsen 10:37:24 03/19/06 (7)
- Irrelevant.... - real_jj 14:01:57 03/31/06 (3)
- "I would prefer it if you would be more logical in the future." And *I* would prefer it if... - clarkjohnsen 10:15:20 04/01/06 (2)
- Just accept the truth, Clark - real_jj 20:25:41 04/05/06 (1)
- Still making a spectator sport of yourself we see. - clarkjohnsen 08:00:02 04/06/06 (0)
- Re: He's full of it - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 11:30:42 03/19/06 (2)
- Notice you didn't mention Paul Prudhomme, nor did you take Chris's point. nt - clarkjohnsen 11:35:15 03/19/06 (1)
- Re: Notice you didn't mention Paul Prudhomme, nor did you take Chris's point. nt - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 13:32:21 03/19/06 (0)
- Re: A better method - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 00:16:19 03/17/06 (1)
- HEAR HEAR! EXACTLY!!! lol Nicely Put. (nt) - Presto 12:33:29 03/18/06 (0)
- Re: Good argument ! (long) - theaudiohobby 11:22:09 03/15/06 (2)
- Why change subject ? Nitpicking or what? - cheap-Jack 11:57:44 03/15/06 (1)
- Re: Why change subject ? Nitpicking or what? - theaudiohobby 16:45:11 03/16/06 (0)