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In Reply to: RE: Wow, Bill posted by Tony Lauck on February 12, 2012 at 10:37:57:
> but its not an indictment of iTunes ability to play bit perfect
> at all sample rates supported by the computer's hardware.
I did not write an indictment of iTunes behavior.
You are not interpreting what I said in terms of the series of posts in the thread. I's summarize Beetlemania's argument as
1. JimH claims that delivering a bit perfect audio stream is all that a music player has to do for best sound quality.
2. Chris Connaker wrote a review in which he states that he preferred the sound quality from JKRMC to that from iTunes.
3. JRiver cited that article with a short excerpt on their web site.
4. Beetlemania asserted that iTunes produces bit perfect output
5. and thus JimH is a hypocrite to cite Chris's review.
I pointed out that Beetlemanmia did not know that iTunes produced bit prefect output in Chris's use (4. above). I offered an example that iTunes didn't produce bit perfect output in all cases. I also said "I have not discussed mixing, volume control or whether iTunes makes any changes before it sends audio to Windows."
> On my system I use cPlay to drive a juli@ via the ASIO interface.
> I have the same problem, this setup can not guarantee there is no
> unintended resampling. That's up to me. I have to set the control panel
> in cPlay to the correct sample rate. If I get unwanted resampling at
> least it's high quality, but it's there, none the less.
Some time ago on this forum, you declared that a soundcard or DAC that did not support automatic sample rate adjustment to play audio at the native sample rate was not a satisfactory product. I think your words would apply equally to a music player program.
> Your example doesn't take into account the ability of the user
> to change the Windows and iTunes settings to accommodate
> different audio file sample rates.
I think the screen shot I included makes it very clear that I was aware of the possibility of changing the system wide sample rate.
> This may not be convenient,
Beyond that. I doubt that I would remember to check the current system sample rate before playing each file and I certainly would not remember what sample rate I had last set yesterday.
I have a library of classical music concert recordings. Some have a 44.1 KHz sample rate and some have a 48 KHz sample rate. When I'm listening, I usually pick the next work while the current one is playing. I can't imagine having to check the current and next sample rates and wait until the music stops, change the system sample rate and then select and play the next work.
> I have the same problem, this setup can not guarantee
> there is no unintended resampling. That's up to me.
I did my homework when I selected hardware and software. I avoided alternatives that did not include automatic sample rate conversion. Life is much simpler that way. You can wear the hairshirt but I don't see the point.
> but its not an indictment of iTunes ability to play bit perfect
> at all sample rates supported by the computer's hardware.
I think it is an indication that iTunes is not bit perfect in practice. (I don't think that Apple claims that iTunes sends a bit perfect stream to the DAC chip.)
You may be willing to consider the sample rate, check the sample rate setting in Windows and change it to match the file you are about to play. You may be willing to give up functionality to use cPlay. In iTunes, you would be giving up much of the functionality that program offers. For example,
- playing a file requires additional steps: checking the file's sample rate and the system sample rate before you play. I think that defeats the appeal of iTunes.
- Queueing up files with different sample rates while playback is going
on would lead to re-sampling. Do you give up queueing up files or do you accept that re-sampling will occur when the native sample rate changes from one file to the next?
- Playlists have the same problem as queueing files. Do you restrict each playlist to files with a single sample rate?
- Shuffle mode would be crippled. Do you build playlists for each sample rate and run shuffle mode for one sample rate at a time? What if you want a Louis Armstrong playlist and some of the files are at 44.1 KHz and some are at 88.2 and some are at 96?
In practice, I doubt that bit perfect operation matters to most iTunes users or to Apple.
Getting back to Chris Connaker's review, I'd expect his evaluation of iTunes and JRMC would explore their features and their performance in various uses. In that context, it is quite reasonable that Chris would be listening to iTunes without adjusting the system wide sample rate at least part of the time.
Bill
my blog: http://carsmusicandnature.blogspot.com/
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Follow Ups
- context - Old Listener 13:15:18 02/12/12 (2)
- RE: context-these posts - fmak 00:22:26 02/13/12 (0)
- Thanks for finally answering *one* of my queries - Beetlemania 19:40:07 02/12/12 (0)
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