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That's YOUR Interpretation, It's Not What I Said or Meant.

Posted by thetubeguy1954 (A) on November 27, 2006 at 13:20:10

In Reply to: You keep on making up opinions and motives for me. I thought you were giving that up . . . posted by Pat D on November 22, 2006 at 21:29:04:

Pat,

You seem to be getting quite defensive as this thread continues. If you continue in that vein we may need to stop conversing on this topic.

I don't believe I am making up opinions and motives for you. Instead I read what you say and write comments based on my understanding of what you said. You in turn are doing the exact same thing with me for I don't seem myself making up opinions and motives for you, yet that's your "impression" of what I am doing! Pat you claim "(I)take a bunch of texts and read things into them that are not there." When all I did was call you to the carpet for what you said. For Example:You can claim " I do not accept the hype that goes with Stereophile's descriptions of their ratings for Recommended Components." but when you constantly remind others (as I pointed out) that:

1) I'm still quite pleased with my Paradigm Signature S2 speakers (which I notice have attained Class A Restricted LF status in Stereophile's Recommended Components)
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/25680.html

2) It's true I think my main speakers are first class, along with some excellent speaker reviewers such as John Atkinson, Andrew Marshall, and Doug Schneider.
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/25691.html

3) Stereophile puts the SF Cremona Auditor in Class B Retricted LF, but that is apparently another reviewer's opinion, whereas JA reviewed the S2.
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/25813.html

4) ...my speakers judged by Stereophile to be Class A Restricted LF! You must be going by price and age because you can have no other objective basis for such an assessment.
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/25698.html

Your actions belie your denial. Your defense is Stereophile gives ratings and you point out at what level they put some products. Is like someone caught swimming in the deep end of a pool and claiming they cannot swim, they just walk in the water. "IF" you honestly don't accept the hype that goes with Stereophile's descriptions of their ratings for Recommended Components, why use it at all in regards to your speakers? You seem to want it both ways Pat. You want to deny you accept Stereophiles hype, yet you also want to mention Stereophile rates your Paradigms as Class A (Restricted LF), sorry but you cannot have it both ways. So to claim Nothing I have said logically requires me to accept Stereophile's rating system (which I don't), their descriptions of the ratings (which I don't), nor their reliability and then constantly mention how Stereophile rates your speaker as Class A (Restricted LF) seems a bit hypocritical to me. In fact you even stated: My use of the Stereophile Recommended Components ratings was simply to point out that some eminent reviewers regard them as very good speakers, by no means mid-fi. (which means you are attributing value to the reviews as you're using them to as "proof" that some eminent reviewers regard them as very good speakers.) Thus it's obviously not all hype as you would have us believe you believe. But then you attempted to distance yourself by stating: I don't have to accept the hype that Stereophile gives said ratings and I don't. Pat the reality is if you use a rating you are applying some significance to them, otherwise you wouldn't use them because they are worthless. But then again it seems to be just the way you are.
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Pat you asked me: Where have I said I wanted you to trust my judgment about sound quality? Citations, please.

I'll readily admit you never specifically said trust my judgement. However IMHO you implied you wanted to your judgement to be trusted when you said "Strange that you take HP's word for the sound quality."
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/25691.html

In fact even morricab saw it that way, for he responded to that remark with this: "Why is this strange, Pat? Let's see, take the advice of one of the most respected names in all Audioland or PatD with his strictly midfi setup? Yep, you are right I guess we should go with your assessmnt that its nothing special."
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/25696.html
Now maybe you didn't mean to imply you wanted to be trusted but at least two of us believed that's what you meant.
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Now this really is funny Pat. Out of the blue you come to the mistaken conclusion that it apparently just bugs me that your speakers got a Class A Restricted LF rating in Stereophile and mine haven't. You seem to forget that #1) I did a side-by-side comparision in which the Aliante Pinafarina Ones easily bested your Paradigm Sig S2s and #2) None of my components (with the exception of my Audio Analoge Puccini) have been reviewed by Stereophile or Absolute Sound. So Pat if it really bothered me, like you're suggesting, I could have just as easily bought a different $8.3K integrated amp or $5K CD player that either Stereophile or Absolute Sound had reviewed. Instead, like always I trusted my own ears and judgement. I believe the fact that I didn't purchase components they reviewed proves that unlike you I honestly don't care about Stereophiles or Absolute Sound's ratings.
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Finally Pat you state: But let's look at the context in which both of you referred to my speakers as mid-fi, which makes your motives suspect. Both of you have called my speakers mid-fi to argue against my opinions on testing for the audibility of small differences.

Pat you seem to believe that morricab and I called your speakers mid-fi soley to argue against your opinions on testing for the audibility of small differences. I'm afraid that this is ONLY your opinion and a mistaken one at that! I called your speakers mid-fi (in the past--not in this thread) because that's what I believe them to be, period. I've compared them with the Aliantes which easily bested them all around! The differences were hardly small and very audible. I was trying to be nice but as you are wording your defense like this it needs to be correctly addressed. As I told you before if I accepted Stereophiles standards then yes, IMO the Aliantes should be Class B and your Paradigms would be Class C. As your Quad preamp/poweramp are hardly world class components, it's quite possible you wouldn't hear the amount of difference I heard between the Aliantes and the Paradigms on my system. Also considering you compared the Sonus Faber vs the Paradigms in different rooms with different equipment I'd call that subjective comparison highly suspect at best. If you're happy and believe it's valid, so be it, but I disagree with your opinion.
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Pat I find it quite humorous that YOU now want to turn this topic to a different subject. For now as a final means of defense you're stating: But of course, (my) remarks about the quality of your equipment do nothing to prove that I can detect all the differences I claim to be able to detect!

Look who is now trying to convert this into an Objective vs Subjective debate... YOU! Just because I disagree with your subjective assessment of the Sonus Fabers vs your Paradigms, you now want to twist this debate so that you can be correct at all costs. I guess when all esle fails one must run to what they know protects them best! But I won't fall into your cleverly laid trap. I don't do Objective vs Subjective debates anymore and you know that.

Nowhere were we discussing Objective vs Subjective listening in this entire thread. But now out of the blue you claim I must prove I can detect all the the differences I claim to be able to detect! However to that I say Pat your remarks about the quality of the SF equipment do nothing to prove that you can detect any of the differences, or similarities you claim to be able to detect when comparing the Sonus Fabers vs the Paradigms in different rooms on different components. Thus your subjective opinion is suspect at best.

Keep enjoying the music -- Thetubeguy1954

It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows. - Epictetus

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