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In Reply to: RE: 12 posted by Pepster on April 03, 2011 at 00:42:25
While some can view this crystal business as New Age Mumble Jumble, there is a working theory and a science based one, very well documented and utilized, which covers the working principle. In my very earliest posts, I explained the concept and the workings, but very few readers picked up upon it having jumped on the band wagon fairly recently.
But to make a long story short, you have crystals in every computer, every CD/DVD/Blue ray player, every cell phone, every appliance with a digital clock...just to name a few items. You wouldn't be able to live the modern lifestyle with out the use of crystals.
Stu
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Too much is never enough
While some can view this crystal business as New Age Mumble Jumble, there is a working theory and a science based one, very well documented and utilized, which covers the working principle. In my very earliest posts, I explained the concept and the workings...
If you're referring to what you wrote here nearly a year ago, then may I recommend you go do some more studying and thinking.
But to make a long story short, you have crystals in every computer, every CD/DVD/Blue ray player, every cell phone, every appliance with a digital clock...just to name a few items. You wouldn't be able to live the modern lifestyle with out the use of crystals.
So what? You wouldn't be able to live the modern lifestyle without the use of plastics either.
Your point?
se
I believe the point is that crystals have uses not exclusively tied to New Age superstition. Anyone who assumes that crystals are only used by crackpots is ignoring their legitimate scientific uses. If he finds their use in audio systems questionable, this does not mean that people who do use them believe in parapsychology. Why is it that you and AE feel the need to ridicule them?
It's Æ not AE.
And I hardly ever poke fun at anything, yet alone crystals. You're way off, go back and count my "poking" replies, what, you found maybe a total of two!
I believe the point is that crystals have uses not exclusively tied to New Age superstition.
Since no one has ever said otherwise, then what exactly is the point of that point?
Personally I think the "point" is nothing more than an intellectually dishonest attempt to "legitimize" the fetish of sticking rocks on everything.
Anyone who assumes that crystals are only used by crackpots is ignoring their legitimate scientific uses.
Name one person who assumes anything such as this.
Why is it that you and AE feel the need to ridicule them?
What's wrong with poking fun at silly things?
se
That's why nobody here takes you seriously.
It poisons the atmosphere here.
It poisons the atmosphere here.
I think it's the silly things that poison the atmosphere here.
Send 'em over to Isolation Ward. Or at the very least, separate DIY from Tweaks.
se
"I think it's the silly things that poison the atmosphere here."
No they don't, they're entirely refreshing.
I can't believe I'm entering a discussion with you but, go on, tell us what constitutes a tweak in your opinion? Why do you care anyway? What tweaks are you a 'believer' in anyway? I thought you didn't believe in anything? I thought it was all unreal for you? Care to point to the post you made that started off your most recent contributions so that I don't make the mistake of taking you for a troll?
Their only reason for being here is to annoy you.
Maybe he'll just go away. LOL
Don't count on it.
...
Of you and your twin sister.
By the way which one is you, the one on the left or the one on the right?
They're both me. Quantum mechanics.
Quantum Entanglement no doubt.
Ha!
to be grammatically correct.
C'mon Steve. Read the message by the original poster. He is referring to the New Age implications. I have never ever claimed New Age explanations for anything to do with crystals. I have pointed out the patents of Ben Piazza, and the testing done by him in the Philips test labs.
Apparently you, who designs cables by how your taste lies, has a torch to burn. I do NOT advocate sticking rocks every where: maybe you are confusing me with Geoff Kait, who I firmly disagree with.
One thing is very certain, though, At least my speculations and theories are shared. You are welcome to disagree. At least in my research, though electricity and magnetism can not be separated. H fields will induce an E field and vice versa: one of the fundamental properties of electricity and magnetism.
But you are welcome to disagree with that.
Stu
C'mon Steve. Read the message by the original poster. He is referring to the New Age implications. I have never ever claimed New Age explanations for anything to do with crystals.
I did read the message by the original poster. And I don't recall his saying anything about you specifically.
I have pointed out the patents of Ben Piazza, and the testing done by him in the Philips test labs.
In case you weren't aware, patents don't mean shit. They're just a government license to sue. Nothing more.
As for the Philips test labs, while I don't have the details on that, I can say that they don't necessarily have anything to do with crystals. If you read his patent, you'll find that he has electrically conductive as well as ferromagnetic materials inside the thing. Both of these can provide reflection/absorption (i.e. shielding) of EMI/RFI on their own.
se
or do you just like arguments for sake of arguing?The original post was claiming that there were New Age implications in the use of crystals. None of the users, not even Geoff Kait, is claiming that. If you had something constructive to say, that would be truly be wonderful for a change.
Your postings seem to be coming from a lonely, vitriolic individual. May I recommend some Prozac, seriously....
StuPS Your comment about patents amuse me. Didn't you use Bruce Brisson's patent filing to criticize my comments about wire gauges.....LOL!
Edits: 04/06/11
Crystals obviously have other applications outside audio applications. In fact, most crystals are sold to folks who use them for a wide variety of New Age type things, including physical therapy, health and well-being and the like. However, the inference that audiophiles who use crystals for audio applications are doing so ritualistically or tuning into ancient civilizations is simply a strawman argument glommed from the pages of Zen and the Art of Debunkery, the type of argument anti-tweak trolls and The Amazing Randi are fond of employing.
So, not only are you the professed Jack of All audio, but suddenly a psychiatrist too?
You are licensed to diagnose and give out prescriptions?
So why are you so interested in this confrontation with se? I give a basic theory, not only according to my thinking but also incorporating the thinking of Ben Piazza of Shakti who has patents on his particular application. I am not spouting New Age dogmatisms but encouraging thinking on the lines of the physics that I know and learned and understand. My applications and recommendation for the applications follow that train of thought.
You may not agree and your opinion is yours to profess. But please do not put forth the claim that my applications are New Age and follow no known laws of physics ( like se seems to implying).
There are enough people who have tried the crystal approach and like what it does. The fact that some change in sound, good or bad, is being heard certainly warrants further investigation. I have endeavored to present what I believe is a valid theory and one which should be experimentally verifiable, although I do not have the instrumentation, nor, frankly, the inclination to to do so.
The application is very cheap to implement on your own. To disparage the experimenters who have tried it and enjoyed the results seems to presume that you are a psychiatrist too, in the belief that it is merely a placebo effect. I can not understand anyone who can disparage the effect with out spending as little as $5 to experiment on their own, particularly when the "logic" used is that I don't see how it can work, so therefore it can not.
Of course YMMV, and you are welcome to disagree, but again to state that it can not happen and refuse to experiment strikes me as being an outstanding example of hubris. Are we back to the medieval period when it was decreed that the earth was the center of the universe?
Stu
I'm not really taking sides per se, it's just that you use a professed superior position to put him down, your soapbox of self righteousness. Basically you are guilty of breaking the forum guidelines, but they kind of let you get away with it.
He has qualifications too. Have you ever seen this unit above? It is one of his creations/designs. Can you do better? I seriously doubt it.
Edits: 04/08/11
Have you ever seen this unit above? It is one of his creations/designs. Can you do better?
Actually, I should have done better.
Take a look at that top group of 16 filter caps. Now look at the cap in the far right hand column, third row down from the top.
Notice how the polarity indicator on that cap is in the opposite direction compared to his buddies in the bottom two rows?
Oops.
se
Hey, you're only human and you'll make a mistake every now and then. The important thing is that you catch your mistakes. With me, I make mistakes every now and then too, fortunately for me virtually all of my mistakes are correctable.Yeah, I kind of sort of noticed some of the polarity markings.
Well, a quick session with PHOTOSHOP can fix that problem, no one will ever have to know!
A man with experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.
Hilmar von CampeExperience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn.
C.S. LewisAn expert is someone who has made every possible mistake in their chosen field - more than once.
-Neils Bohr
Edits: 04/09/11 04/09/11
unclestu,You have your following, do you really need more sheep?
I would tend to think, that someone with a physics education such as YOU state, would know Newton's third law of motion:
"The mutual forces of action and reaction between two bodies are equal, opposite and collinear."
I used to frequent this forum, and much to your satisfaction I'm sure, those days are long gone.
I will however, think of you every time I watch the "Love Guru".
Edits: 04/09/11 04/09/11 04/09/11 04/09/11
You don't like what I write: that's fine by me. Why bother reading my posts. They are NOT required reading by any means.
I stated a tweak and postulated about the means of its effectiveness. I do not claim "New Age" energies or anything occult as to the means of operation. The principles, as I understand them, are well documented in the typical physics text. In my experimentation, the effects conform to the piezo effect. At least where I place the crystals where there are strong EMI/RFI fields I can hear an effect.
Steve is claiming that it can not work, that the permeability is "negligible" and would not, in any case, be audible to the human ear. Since there is relatively little research in this arena, the threshold of human sensitivity when the effects are applied to a circuit are still to be established.
It seems to me that if you believe that everything to be known has already been written, then anything we write about crystals should be ignored, and you are welcome to do exactly that. No one is forcing you to read the posts.
If, on the other hand, you view this a a potentially new field of research and application, then it is rather exciting, at least in my point of view. I am not saying that I am perfect or 100% right. However, since many who have tried it are reporting rather positive results, I do believe there is something to the crystals, something not "New Age" attributable.
That more needs to be done is undoubtedly true. I am not a rocket scientist, just an interested layman, but I have been exploring this for well over a decade. The things I have learned have been through constant experimentation and observation. Rather than have others go through the similar frustrations and halting steps I went through, I believe it is better to share my personal observations in the hope that it will advance overall knowledge, and move it along much more quickly.
YMMV, of course. Since you hate my posts and tweaks, why do you bother even bother opening them? The forum is open and you need not do anything that bothers you.
Stu
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