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162.40.59.166
12.........
The amount of "Crystal Threads" on the first page of this forum.
"Crystal" had a totally different meaning in the '90's believe me.
I googled John Denver/cults/crystals/mood rings/Santa and this forum came up.
Before you start, I know, I am grossly uninformed.
Totally out of my mind if I do not believe in "Crystals" making a difference in my sound quality.
But please digest this:
I did not come here for an out of body crystal experience.
The overwhelming amount of "crystal" info on this forum is blinding to say the least!
I do not have crystals with names and wishes upon them.
The only Crystal I am interested in is the one working at my local Starbucks, who happens to be pretty "fine" if that is a crystal term.
Put your money in your AC and you won't need "cyrstals"!
If I have to type "Crystal" one more time, I am going to throw up.
Flame suit on!
Any way we can get back to a blood and guts audio forum?
Follow Ups:
While some can view this crystal business as New Age Mumble Jumble, there is a working theory and a science based one, very well documented and utilized, which covers the working principle. In my very earliest posts, I explained the concept and the workings, but very few readers picked up upon it having jumped on the band wagon fairly recently.
But to make a long story short, you have crystals in every computer, every CD/DVD/Blue ray player, every cell phone, every appliance with a digital clock...just to name a few items. You wouldn't be able to live the modern lifestyle with out the use of crystals.
Stu
AND?
Too much is never enough
While some can view this crystal business as New Age Mumble Jumble, there is a working theory and a science based one, very well documented and utilized, which covers the working principle. In my very earliest posts, I explained the concept and the workings...
If you're referring to what you wrote here nearly a year ago, then may I recommend you go do some more studying and thinking.
But to make a long story short, you have crystals in every computer, every CD/DVD/Blue ray player, every cell phone, every appliance with a digital clock...just to name a few items. You wouldn't be able to live the modern lifestyle with out the use of crystals.
So what? You wouldn't be able to live the modern lifestyle without the use of plastics either.
Your point?
se
I believe the point is that crystals have uses not exclusively tied to New Age superstition. Anyone who assumes that crystals are only used by crackpots is ignoring their legitimate scientific uses. If he finds their use in audio systems questionable, this does not mean that people who do use them believe in parapsychology. Why is it that you and AE feel the need to ridicule them?
It's Æ not AE.
And I hardly ever poke fun at anything, yet alone crystals. You're way off, go back and count my "poking" replies, what, you found maybe a total of two!
I believe the point is that crystals have uses not exclusively tied to New Age superstition.
Since no one has ever said otherwise, then what exactly is the point of that point?
Personally I think the "point" is nothing more than an intellectually dishonest attempt to "legitimize" the fetish of sticking rocks on everything.
Anyone who assumes that crystals are only used by crackpots is ignoring their legitimate scientific uses.
Name one person who assumes anything such as this.
Why is it that you and AE feel the need to ridicule them?
What's wrong with poking fun at silly things?
se
That's why nobody here takes you seriously.
It poisons the atmosphere here.
It poisons the atmosphere here.
I think it's the silly things that poison the atmosphere here.
Send 'em over to Isolation Ward. Or at the very least, separate DIY from Tweaks.
se
"I think it's the silly things that poison the atmosphere here."
No they don't, they're entirely refreshing.
I can't believe I'm entering a discussion with you but, go on, tell us what constitutes a tweak in your opinion? Why do you care anyway? What tweaks are you a 'believer' in anyway? I thought you didn't believe in anything? I thought it was all unreal for you? Care to point to the post you made that started off your most recent contributions so that I don't make the mistake of taking you for a troll?
Their only reason for being here is to annoy you.
Maybe he'll just go away. LOL
Don't count on it.
...
Of you and your twin sister.
By the way which one is you, the one on the left or the one on the right?
They're both me. Quantum mechanics.
Quantum Entanglement no doubt.
Ha!
to be grammatically correct.
C'mon Steve. Read the message by the original poster. He is referring to the New Age implications. I have never ever claimed New Age explanations for anything to do with crystals. I have pointed out the patents of Ben Piazza, and the testing done by him in the Philips test labs.
Apparently you, who designs cables by how your taste lies, has a torch to burn. I do NOT advocate sticking rocks every where: maybe you are confusing me with Geoff Kait, who I firmly disagree with.
One thing is very certain, though, At least my speculations and theories are shared. You are welcome to disagree. At least in my research, though electricity and magnetism can not be separated. H fields will induce an E field and vice versa: one of the fundamental properties of electricity and magnetism.
But you are welcome to disagree with that.
Stu
C'mon Steve. Read the message by the original poster. He is referring to the New Age implications. I have never ever claimed New Age explanations for anything to do with crystals.
I did read the message by the original poster. And I don't recall his saying anything about you specifically.
I have pointed out the patents of Ben Piazza, and the testing done by him in the Philips test labs.
In case you weren't aware, patents don't mean shit. They're just a government license to sue. Nothing more.
As for the Philips test labs, while I don't have the details on that, I can say that they don't necessarily have anything to do with crystals. If you read his patent, you'll find that he has electrically conductive as well as ferromagnetic materials inside the thing. Both of these can provide reflection/absorption (i.e. shielding) of EMI/RFI on their own.
se
or do you just like arguments for sake of arguing?The original post was claiming that there were New Age implications in the use of crystals. None of the users, not even Geoff Kait, is claiming that. If you had something constructive to say, that would be truly be wonderful for a change.
Your postings seem to be coming from a lonely, vitriolic individual. May I recommend some Prozac, seriously....
StuPS Your comment about patents amuse me. Didn't you use Bruce Brisson's patent filing to criticize my comments about wire gauges.....LOL!
Edits: 04/06/11
Crystals obviously have other applications outside audio applications. In fact, most crystals are sold to folks who use them for a wide variety of New Age type things, including physical therapy, health and well-being and the like. However, the inference that audiophiles who use crystals for audio applications are doing so ritualistically or tuning into ancient civilizations is simply a strawman argument glommed from the pages of Zen and the Art of Debunkery, the type of argument anti-tweak trolls and The Amazing Randi are fond of employing.
So, not only are you the professed Jack of All audio, but suddenly a psychiatrist too?
You are licensed to diagnose and give out prescriptions?
So why are you so interested in this confrontation with se? I give a basic theory, not only according to my thinking but also incorporating the thinking of Ben Piazza of Shakti who has patents on his particular application. I am not spouting New Age dogmatisms but encouraging thinking on the lines of the physics that I know and learned and understand. My applications and recommendation for the applications follow that train of thought.
You may not agree and your opinion is yours to profess. But please do not put forth the claim that my applications are New Age and follow no known laws of physics ( like se seems to implying).
There are enough people who have tried the crystal approach and like what it does. The fact that some change in sound, good or bad, is being heard certainly warrants further investigation. I have endeavored to present what I believe is a valid theory and one which should be experimentally verifiable, although I do not have the instrumentation, nor, frankly, the inclination to to do so.
The application is very cheap to implement on your own. To disparage the experimenters who have tried it and enjoyed the results seems to presume that you are a psychiatrist too, in the belief that it is merely a placebo effect. I can not understand anyone who can disparage the effect with out spending as little as $5 to experiment on their own, particularly when the "logic" used is that I don't see how it can work, so therefore it can not.
Of course YMMV, and you are welcome to disagree, but again to state that it can not happen and refuse to experiment strikes me as being an outstanding example of hubris. Are we back to the medieval period when it was decreed that the earth was the center of the universe?
Stu
I'm not really taking sides per se, it's just that you use a professed superior position to put him down, your soapbox of self righteousness. Basically you are guilty of breaking the forum guidelines, but they kind of let you get away with it.
He has qualifications too. Have you ever seen this unit above? It is one of his creations/designs. Can you do better? I seriously doubt it.
Edits: 04/08/11
Have you ever seen this unit above? It is one of his creations/designs. Can you do better?
Actually, I should have done better.
Take a look at that top group of 16 filter caps. Now look at the cap in the far right hand column, third row down from the top.
Notice how the polarity indicator on that cap is in the opposite direction compared to his buddies in the bottom two rows?
Oops.
se
Hey, you're only human and you'll make a mistake every now and then. The important thing is that you catch your mistakes. With me, I make mistakes every now and then too, fortunately for me virtually all of my mistakes are correctable.Yeah, I kind of sort of noticed some of the polarity markings.
Well, a quick session with PHOTOSHOP can fix that problem, no one will ever have to know!
A man with experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.
Hilmar von CampeExperience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn.
C.S. LewisAn expert is someone who has made every possible mistake in their chosen field - more than once.
-Neils Bohr
Edits: 04/09/11 04/09/11
unclestu,You have your following, do you really need more sheep?
I would tend to think, that someone with a physics education such as YOU state, would know Newton's third law of motion:
"The mutual forces of action and reaction between two bodies are equal, opposite and collinear."
I used to frequent this forum, and much to your satisfaction I'm sure, those days are long gone.
I will however, think of you every time I watch the "Love Guru".
Edits: 04/09/11 04/09/11 04/09/11 04/09/11
You don't like what I write: that's fine by me. Why bother reading my posts. They are NOT required reading by any means.
I stated a tweak and postulated about the means of its effectiveness. I do not claim "New Age" energies or anything occult as to the means of operation. The principles, as I understand them, are well documented in the typical physics text. In my experimentation, the effects conform to the piezo effect. At least where I place the crystals where there are strong EMI/RFI fields I can hear an effect.
Steve is claiming that it can not work, that the permeability is "negligible" and would not, in any case, be audible to the human ear. Since there is relatively little research in this arena, the threshold of human sensitivity when the effects are applied to a circuit are still to be established.
It seems to me that if you believe that everything to be known has already been written, then anything we write about crystals should be ignored, and you are welcome to do exactly that. No one is forcing you to read the posts.
If, on the other hand, you view this a a potentially new field of research and application, then it is rather exciting, at least in my point of view. I am not saying that I am perfect or 100% right. However, since many who have tried it are reporting rather positive results, I do believe there is something to the crystals, something not "New Age" attributable.
That more needs to be done is undoubtedly true. I am not a rocket scientist, just an interested layman, but I have been exploring this for well over a decade. The things I have learned have been through constant experimentation and observation. Rather than have others go through the similar frustrations and halting steps I went through, I believe it is better to share my personal observations in the hope that it will advance overall knowledge, and move it along much more quickly.
YMMV, of course. Since you hate my posts and tweaks, why do you bother even bother opening them? The forum is open and you need not do anything that bothers you.
Stu
I've never been able to understand the line of reasoning like yours. Don't like some subject? DON'T READ posts on that subject - should be simple, no?
a
I'm with you.
nt
Oh wait... we're talking crystals? My bad.
Niente!
" Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination." -Michael McClure
nt
If you've got a decent setup the difference can be substantial.
even with a $300 receiver and $400 pair of speakers. That being said there are many speakers, primarily, with mixed phases anmd timing which will cloud the observation.
Stu
You are right, sir!
_
It's based on list price, eh?
Then you deserve a free bag of crystals from your dealer, that lucky stiff!
...if you don't hear it, then either you have crappy equipment, are deaf, or both.
se
I've detailed my experience below which is briefly: I tried tweaking a decidedly mid-fi system and heard very little difference from tweaks that made a major difference in my good system. The good system cost more and I suspect the cost had something to do with its quality. If you expect to hear state of the art audio through a $200 CD player, you'll be disapointed.
I hate to judge before all the facts are in but it looks like you've been punked.
"If you've got a decent setup the difference can be substantial. "
Or not at all...............
I do have a very well thought out system updated and/or upgraded mostly by myself. Every piece was researched and obtained with a purpose in mind to work together as a whole.
... then spending about $10 on a bag of crystals, and trying them in your well-researched system?
And then posting something actually based on experience?
of the crystal shipment your sending me.
...if I knew then what I know now, because I've really spent more than I can afford on this beast, but that's water over the dam. I have a highly resolving system which reveals a great deal about the character of my cabling, my power, its interaction with the room, and many other things. If my speakers hadn't been so resolving, I doubt that I would have sunk all of the money that I did into the electronics, cabling, and everything else. But I could hear so much distortion through them that I improved the rest of the system to make the speakers even listenable. After putting together a system that registers very small changes and makes them painfully obvious, I discovered Acoustic Revive QR8 quartz resonators. Boy what a difference they made. After placing eight of them in strategic positions, my soundstage probably doubled in size. After a year of fooling around with other crystals, the quality of sound I was getting was unbelievable--a huge improvement from what it had been before.Then I tried some crystals on my second system. It's a nice sounding rig that plays music pleasantly--a little attenuated in the upper frequencies and not terribly precise, but all in all a good system. I heard absolutely no differences with power cords, interconnects or crystals. Well maybe some slight changes, but too subtle to be sure of. The speaker cables in my main system cost $1800 and they really made a big difference, but they would have been a waste of money in system #2.
Edits: 04/03/11
Besides the explanation I posted below, your example is another possibility, as to why some do not hear any differences. A system needs to be resolving enough, to hear the influence of vibration and EMI/RFI absorption. I've been going through enough material since I added some crystals to my breaker panel, and the difference is quite startling. Subtle details buried in the noise floor, a noise floor I didn't know existed, vanished, revealing a wealth of new found information. The expansion I'm hearing in the soundstage is undeniable. An increase in height, width, and deeper more layered soundstage, are laid out before me, every time I pop in another cd. The fact that all these improvements came about from a $30 bag of crystals, is the icing on the cake.
The placebo effect. You didn't expect to hear anything, and you didn't.
And you are presumptuous to assume that.
I didn't assume anything. That is why I said "possible".
*
I bet you subjectively reached your conclusions, by trusting your own ears.
around here. Batteries, crystals, plug in sequence, microvibrations from wall outlets ..............................................................
.............................................................................................................
Edits: 04/03/11
for better or worse, I don't discount any tweak anyone tries. I think some changes, however, are so minuscule that a person's room, equipment, and/or mind set my prove or disprove that the tweak works. Again, it's so minuscule with some things that only the accumulation of those tweaks will be heard readily.
But is it 6 things? Three things? 10 things? I'll try anything and as I said, I think they all work, but I think I'll stick to the results by tweaks that are easily distinguished.
Probably crystals do work, everything vibrates. But what do you have "crystallized"? Every circuit board, every transformer, every chassis, every wire,THE ROOM? I'm relatively sure you'd hear the difference if your use of crystals were "universal" within your space.
I can't be sure that two bags of Herkimer diamonds on my preamp made a difference, but it cost a total of 5 bucks to find out, so big deal. Perhaps I'll get more crystals and try them, perhaps I won't.
To believe that vibrations aren't affected, one way or the other, is sticking your head in the sand. It just isn't as easy as, "I don't have to jump off a bridge to know I'll be killed." YET, if one chooses not to bother taking the time and energy to place crystals everywhere, AND spends time money, and energy on other tweaks, THEN the rewards can be great.
I can't think there's anyone that believes that spikes and pucks do NOTHING. for instance. Tweaks are fun. Many, many of them are both cheap and effective and can be discerned aurally right away!
Excuse me while I apply hippopotamus snot to my speaker cables.
******************************
I knew what I was doing...what was I doing?
Hippo Snot? Ewwwwwww! But actually I find crystals have given me more for less than most other tweaks. That list for me includes speaker cables and interconnects, speaker filters, footers, parallel AC filtration and chokes.
Mike I would say you've only put your toe in the water with crystals and you'll need to try more for actual ratable effect. I bought a bunch of crystals for under $100 and still have a lot left unused. As per the posts I use Amethyst, Tourmaline, rose and white Quartz and Topaz. I think I'm forgetting one..........
ET
Can't take the crystal harmony huh?
Rick mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Appaently Arkansas is much more laid back than I thought.
Digest that!
ET
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