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In Reply to: RE: QuickSilver contact enhancer on Cat5 speaker wire re. burn-in posted by Japesgalore on December 17, 2008 at 07:35:26
Yes, that's the new name for the stuff. But I find the spray can easy and cheaper than the full strength bottle. Same formula and same effect. Just chose your product based on how you like to apply stuff and how much you like to pay.
Sondek says he did exactly what you did and liked the results after a while, so you can follow his advice more easily and evaluate how you like the sound in a few weeks, then change if dissatisfied.
Please be aware that a lot of HF tizz, brightness, etc. is actually RFI masquerading as HF information. There are different controls for that. REad up in the archives here for suggestions, starting with R-C filters at both ends of the cables. Those work fantastically well for me, and you can mock some up simply to test it too.
Follow Ups:
One more thing about the Caig Gold. I can get either the spray or the bottle from the same guy on ebay.co.uk but they cost the same. I read that it's best to put as little of the stuff on as possible. Wouldn't the spray can overdo it then in that regard? The bottle has a handy little brush with it, and it looks like the liquid filters through to it through a small tube. What other advantage is there to having the spray? If I ordered it I'd also get some of those brushes and swabs to aid in cleaning and applying.
The R-C stuff I might get round to, but somehow seems less likely now that I've put more hours on these cables. They're smoothing out nicely and the bass is getting catchy - Notorious BIG is souding decidedly gangsta right now...
Ya know, I don't know!
When I shopped around it seemed that the spray was the cheaper deal here in stores and I have yet to even use up one can. I find the spray easy and I can just spray it on a Q tip (cotton swab) and wipe it on that way. No other reason and never compared.
You pays your money and you makes your choice... as the old saying goes.
Either way, it's a tried and true product that cleans, conditions, and protects all in one compound. And it seems to last quite long too. If you went back and reapplied it every 3-6 months that would probably be overkill! But some do, as some change their car oil religiously very often. YMMV
Hey again, I've been going through a bunch of old posts on this topic and have also read conflicting opinions on the Caig stuff. Comparatively, there seems to be more negative about Caig than there is about Quicksilver, especially the latest Quicksilver Gold (which I DON'T have). Caig Gold is said to impart its own characteristics as well, namely, cutting off the highs and diffusing the midrange (whatever that means).
Quicksilver Gold is said to be pretty much flawless, but I was wondering if you could share what exactly you thought wasn't so great about the Quicksilver you had. I suppose I can kind of imagine what it is but I haven't been able to do any comparisons with or without the stuff, given that my speaker cables are new constructions anyway. For me, certain high frequency notes/tones are quite pronounced and prominent against the rest of the soundstage. They're not fatiguing, but I'm just ever so slightly too aware of them. Perhaps its still a question of burn-in, as I've only had it, and the cables, in use for about 40 hours.
Also, about these R-C filters, searching the site using 'r-c' in the field brings up absolutely nothing. Strange (although 'zobel' brings up loads of stuff). Have you got maybe a link to something that you found useful?
Cheers
R/C speaker cable network
Julien
"There's someone in my head, but it's not me"
This one was done very carefully and is documented herein with great instructions and pix. It does make this little project seem very complicated, which it turns out not to be at all!
I make mine similarly with some minor variances, partly the result of experimentation and partly just out of laziness. But the basic formula works very very well and is much better than just an R-C on both cable ends, or an R-C array on both ends, or an ungrounded Ti-shielded R-C on both ends.
In fact, I posted that I wired my ground into another R-C array (also Ti=shielded) that was built into a plug. Talk about overdoing it! LOL But that works really well for me.
For starters, the simplest way is to just do one major value of C and one of R and put each of these R-Cs on each cable end. This can be done with wirenuts before permanently soldering, so you can experiment more easily with R values (and these may be idiosyncratic, so worth trying). Next step is the 3 descending R-C pairs forming an array and use that on each cable end.
Then you go for the whole grounded Ti-shielded deal.
Japes, first try this thread for R-C filtering on speaker cables. There are more. Just look up "filter" under my name "bartc" or "Al Sekela" and follow all the links to the other posters and you'll get tons of stuff from various years and levels of developments.
As I understood it, Zobels are a particular usage of R-C filters, while R-C filtering or parallel AC filtering are more generic terms. I'm not the EE here, so don't go by my amateur information. But you can find lots in the archives by each of these, and R-C parallel filtering schemes work for both AC and speaker cable voltage/wattage/amperage situation, only you require more specific safety designed pieces for the AC.
As to QS, I have only the original silver formulation and have never heard the gold version. I was never dissatisfied with the silver and am not dissing it here. I was just suggesting that CAIG is great for lots more uses and I think it's better for treatment before one crimps the terminations onto the bare wire ends. Nothing I can prove or disprove there.
Al always was suspicious of the carrier of the QS type products drying out and leaving you with a less optimal conductivity. Some folks like the more detailed sound, some find it too bright or brittle. I never disliked it and actually liked it, until I started using more refined polished plugs and outlets from Furu and then Oyaide, and then felt the QS to be unnecessary. YOu also have to be careful of where you use it and how, so as not to create a shorting situation!
YMMV.
I've investigated Zobels before but I found anything written about them rather baffling. I've checked out a few posts now and still find it all very confusing. I am a complete noob when it comes to impedence, capacitance, inductance, resistance and all the rest of it, and the interplay between them. I wouldn't know where to begin with constructing one. I wouldn't even know where and how to get the parts where I live in Poland. I can't even solder. Although I know someone who's been an electrical engineer for something like 40 years, maybe he could help me. But, I sure won't be able to carry out a conversation on these topics, especially in Polish!
What parts will I need, as in, exactly what type of resistor and capacitor and wire would I need for my Dynaudio 52SEs? Jeeze, I don't even know what they look like! Has no one ever made a page with a handy step-by-step guide with pictures? This web page has my speaker's impedance curve plotted, if that helps http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/dynaudio-52se/page-3
It seems that, at higher frequencies, its impedance is rather flat. The examples I've seen zobels applied to had an impedance curve that shot upwards at that point. Does that make any difference to my situation? Also, will just one zobel network across the speaker binding posts (using babana plugs) be enough, as I have banana plugs from my speaker cables plugged in at the amp end?
Cheers
I didn't do or know any of this stuff either, but was able to cobble together my first set easily and they worked well. Now I can do the job correctly.
There is one URL that does illustrate how to do it the "right way", but that's for when you're more skilled.
FWIW, don't look at "zobels", look up "R-C" under Tweaks archives. Many have posted, but Al Sekela's work best for me. You can see my former posts as well.
Of course, were you able to measure and understand all those electrical factors in your speakers, cables and amp, you'd be best off. But you can try this easily enough by mimicking what the Walker commercial job does: a simple R-C attached to terminals on each end of each cable. The R value to start with is about 10 - 20 Ohms. A starting C value is about 10,000uF. Check those figures against what Al posted for certainty.
You hook them up in series, that is one end of the C to an end of the R, then hook the free C end to the positive terminals and the free R end to the negative terminals (if I recollect correctly). YOu can use a wirenut to twist them together without soldering.
Al did the testing of what R and C types work best, but he tells me the best C is a silver mica one and the best R is the Holco (mail order from Michael Percy for example). You can try it with whatever equivalents are available in Poland very cheaply.
If you like the change after a short burn in, then you can learn how to do a full R-C array, soldered, terminated, grounded and TI-shielded at your leisure and just enjoy the good sounds in the meantime with the cheapo quick version.
Have fun!
Bart,
Note the typo on the value of the capacitor you recommend. 10,000uf is slightly excessive for a zobel capacitor, try .01uf:-
Regards.
I was typing too quickly at work and that's why I suggested rechecking my figure with Al's former posts. I knew that I might well be misstating it here.
It must have been 10,000 pF. I'm not the electrical genius! LOL
Anyway, thanks for correcting the gaffe for me and him.
I can tell the little brown chicklets by the writing on their sides pretty well, but forget the actual values, with which I don't work every day.
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