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In Reply to: RE: best power conditioner for dirty AC posted by aviel@synergystudios.org on October 27, 2007 at 13:54:28
$1000 call and electrician and have him/her put a circuit in for your audio instead.
$2000 add a new powerline to your home just for audio
beats any PC
In fact you could probably have a new circuit put in for around $500
Follow Ups:
In the original post the writer stated "I am trying to put together a portable rig".
So, while I agree with your thinking as it would apply to a static installation in a house, the portability requirement renders it impractical (unless the dude can afford to have a dedicated mains spur installed at each location.... :-)
DevillEars
.
"beats any PC"
Um, no it won't. Even a dedicated line will NOT correct for line voltage flucuations nor will it remove transmitted noise, such as RF, on the line.
I agree that a dedicated line is well worth the expense but please don't infer that all electrical anomolies are cured with the mere addition of a dedicated line.....they are not.
There are some REAL power conditioners/regenerators out there that really do the intended job of delivering damn near perfect AC but they tend to be on the spendy side and most people are not willing/able to allow such a purchase in their audio disposable income budget.
Cheers,
~kenster
My inference was that for the price 500/1000/2000 a dedicated line/circuit was the way to go...but ok, I understand your point.
Option A
In my area a new drop of electrical service costs about $600 + est. new panel box $700 + a few circuits $200 = $1500 which leaves me enough money for 4 Oyaide R1 receptacles @ 125ea. Grand Total 2K
vs.
Option B
Existing wire and outlet + PS Audio PowerPlant or similar.
My inference was that Option A would yeld better results than Option B...I think its pretty sound.
"My inference was that Option A would yeld better results than Option B...I think its pretty sound."
Again, no it won't and here is why option A will not be better, your still not addressing the single biggest problem with your local AC delivery and that is line voltage flucuations.
Every component that relies on AC voltage, especially those that employ AC driven motors, are very sensitive to AC voltage flucuations and it is these flucuations that cause the problems with regards to a components performance.
Do U have any idea how much your local electrical services voltage flucuates? U may be surprised as it is NOT stable at all under even the best circumstances.
Your best bet would be an Oyaide outlet feeding an AC regenerator or at the very least.....a balanced power conditioner as the balanced conversion mitigates a tremendous amount of noise riding on the line but will not correct for AC voltage flucuations.
~
Are the flucuations from the pole the same and at the same rate as flucuations from the wall socket of a house who's power is being shared with furnace, refridgerator, dishwasher, washing machine, flourescent lights etc.?What is the greatest cause of AC flucuations?
Does every homes AC power flucuate to the point of it being audible in a Sound System?
Do components have built in regulators and capacitors to minimize the effects of flucuating AC current?
Is there a way to test AC flucuations ie via a RatShack device?
Seriously, Im asking....not trying to cause a debate.
"Are the flucuations from the pole the same and at the same rate as flucuations from the wall socket of a house who's power is being shared with furnace, refridgerator, dishwasher, washing machine, flourescent lights etc.?"
It is the incoming service to your residence that is the issue although the appliances will add a great deal of noise onto your line.
"What is the greatest cause of AC flucuations?"
The greatest cause is the sheer number of homes/businesses that share your line.
"Does every homes AC power flucuate to the point of it being audible in a Sound System?"
Usually equipment that does not employ a motor will function just fine but once U have heard that equipment powered from a true AC regenerator, the effects of your line voltage flucuations/noise are laid bare. Those with motors also benefit from AC regeneration as the motor speed is greatly stabilized....especially AC motors.
"Do components have built in regulators and capacitors to minimize the effects of flucuating AC current?"
Yes but I will refer U to my answer to your previous question.
"Is there a way to test AC flucuations ie via a RatShack device?"
Um no. One needs to employ a digital O-scope to really "see" whats going on with regards to line voltage flucuations/noise. Generally a DVM is not sensitive enough nor has the resolution.
Cheers,
~kenster
.
Today for laughs and giggles, I measured my line voltage over a 2 hour period and got a voltage deviation of 2.8VAC with the low being 118.6VAC and a high of 121.4. The average being 120.8VAC.
The measurements were taken from 3pm to 5pm utilizing a Fluke 179 true RMS multimeter using the Min/Max function. Just watching the unit for ~1 minute, I observed a .8VAC flucuation. Not very stable even for a residential neighborhood!
Cheers
Howdy
Still a power regenerator isn't always the best answer: few have the instantaneous current capabilities to drive high current amps. With 10 gauge dedicated lines I can get 60 amps for small amounts of time should my amps need it...
-Ted
Hey Ted,
While I respect your viewpoint(s), it is the very fact that the line voltage is flucuating that causes equipment to not sound as best it could.
I agree that most true AC regenerators are unable to handle mondo power amps but these are far and few between cases and most peoples "real world" systems can be accomodated by a well designed true AC regenerator with at least 600 watts of capacity.
As an aside, someone that can afford a PS Audio Power Plant 1200, for example, can certainly afford pretty much any equipment they desire and why someone would skimp on their stability of power at this level of the hobby is beyond me but hey....to each is own :-)
Even the mondo Mark Levinson No. 33H mono bloc amps employ on-board true AC regeneration. Why?.......because it frickin' sounds better!!
~
Howdy
If it slowly varies over a period of hours or daily, it's not much of a problem (as long as it stays in certain limits.)
If it changes rapidly (e.g. spikes or flutter) it certainly is a big problem, but still regeneration isn't the only reasonable answer, as you mention some equipment is better prepared for certain power problems than others.
-Ted
Howdy
I have a pretty good audiophile level UPS and I also have dedicated lines with reasonably good outlets. I had to add R1 outlets to the UPS and use better gauge hookup wire in it for them to get it to be a horse race between using the UPS and going directly to the wall with great power cords...
Don't get me wrong: we have brown outs and glitches that a simple power conditioner can't rectify, but in reality my amps don't care about those at all, it's other things in my system that care and made me get a audiophile UPS to handle actual non-trivial gaps in power.
It's very clear that sometimes dedicated circuits, etc. win (in the sense of the best sound / dollar spent) and other times a power regenerator wins.
-Ted
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