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In Reply to: RE: Try the tweak I use as posted below. (nt) posted by cheap-Jack on September 20, 2007 at 08:57:14
tarnishing of high purity silver has never been a problem, even when exposed. Tarnish on silver conducts anyway, unlike copper. I have speaker wires and IC's I made in the earlier 1990's that are still just fine with barely any noticable change. The lower purity silver will have some sulfur and other impurities that will mess with it. I have always used teflon, .999 or .99995 silver. I have never sealed it because if there is moisture I really don't want to seal that in and I have found them better off to breath. This is my experience over the past 17 years of using and making high purity dead soft IC's, power cables and speaker wire.The Elaborate DAC=Johnny's Balloon Meshplate 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645
Follow Ups:
tarnishing of high purity silver has never been a problem, even when exposed. Tarnish on silver conducts anyway, unlike copper.
Actually the "tarnish" is silver sulphide, not silver oxide. Silver doesn't really oxidize much in air at normal temperatures.
But in any case, unless the surface is being used as a mechanical contact, I think people tend to freak out a bit too much about it.
se
Hi.
Precaution is always better than remedy given polluted city airs are not helping it. I'd not want to dodge the bullet considering my AG ICs & power cords are being used by audiophiles all over, some in in very hot & humid countries.
I always use min 4N silver. In fact I still keep a small piece of first sample of certified 0.99997 silver. It tarnishes like hell. Indeed I got responses from inmates in other forum which complained bitterly about the silver foil used as ground bus got tarnish bigtime quick. You're so lucky, bud.
I don't see any problem with moistures when buiding the cords. When shrinking down the polyolefin heatshrink tubing over the Teflon tubing holding the Ag conductors with a hot gun, the strong heat dries up any moisture ever trapped inside.
BTW, as I said above, air is the best dielectric next to vaccuum. Guess how I get air as dielectric for the AG condudctors yet still have the wires air-tighted from oxidation?
Take it as a quiz.
c-J
with nitrogen
If you have the wires stuffed into tubes, you can't really make a claim of an air dielectric.
se
Hi.
It only took me a little thinking. I recall I later came across a 25-year-plus major brandname IC & cords maker in USA claimed using the similar tweak to provide air dielectric for one of its high-end products.
Ideally pure free air dielectric is the best, so bare wire is the best. But we need insulation against electric shorting. So the second best is to use porous materials, like cotton, silk or the like porous materials, but then we start to worry about metal tarnishing due to moisture & chemical pollution. It happens to bare copper, let alone Ag.
We need to take a compromise btween air & insulation. Teflon is the best
choice being an excellent dielectric & air impermeable, pretty flexible (use thin wall type), & pretty affordably available in various internal diameter.
Simply choose Teflon tubing (I only use PTFE UL 600V rated, made in Germany for my Ag cords) of internal diameters many times larger than the gauge size of the single Ag conductor. By using hot gun to remove the moisture inside the tubing & sealed up both ends of the tube/exposed Ag conductor ends, an air-tight air dielectric environment will be provided for the Ag conductor inside the tubing.
How come? At any time, the round Ag conductor is only in one point contact with the wall of the round Teflon tubing. So the conductor is virtually bathing the dry air trapped inside the tubing !!
Of course, the next task is to provide mechanical protection to the Teflon tubing to ensure the Teflon tubing maintains its round shape at all time.
c-J
I had a sneaking suspicion this is what you were going to say which is why I hazarded the answer "You don't" in response to your quiz in your other post.
At any time, the round Ag conductor is only in one point contact with the wall of the round Teflon tubing. So the conductor is virtually bathing the dry air trapped inside the tubing !!
You seem to be overlooking something here. And that is that it's the electric fields , emanating outward from the surface of the conductors, which interacts with the dielectric. So just because the conductor is making point contact with the tubing doesn't mean you have an air dielectric. The dielectric isn't just that which makes contact with the conductor.
The fields are still interacting with the tubing, particularly in the region between the conductors where they're interacting with a double thickness of the tubing.
So no, I don't really see this arrangement as constituting an "air dielectric" in any significant way.
se
Hi.
Surely this is NOT true free air dielectric. Nor any cotton or silk stuff which are in contact of the bare conductor at all time.
But it would be much better situation in term of wave transfer delay due to dielectric reaction with the signal electrical field vs any solid insulation adhered skin-tight to the conductor at all time. We are talking about very weak electrical field due to weak signal level anyway.
Another benefit of this grossly loose tubing arrangement is it will subtantially reduce the cable capacitance (conductor+insulation) as air is least 'capacitive' (e=1).
Basing on the same priniciple, shielding should not be used in audio signal ICs.
c-J
right you are. I am working on levitating the conductor but so far it has only been successful in a penne pasta tube. Hey how come you couldn't help them out with the ac prong resonance issue? Mine ring like a bitch when in socket, or maybe that's the telephone.
Later ;-)
BTW, as I said above, air is the best dielectric next to vaccuum. Guess how I get air as dielectric for the AG condudctors yet still have the wires air-tighted from oxidation?
Take it as a quiz.
I'll take a stab at it.
You don't.
se
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