Tweakers' Asylum

You could flush the tube

65.78.113.3

Cpk

In Reply to: RE: Not anybody lucky like you. posted by cheap-Jack on September 21, 2007 at 07:24:26

with nitrogen

Follow Ups:

RE: You could flush the tube - Steve Eddy 12:06:31 09/21/07 (4)
If you have the wires stuffed into tubes, you can't really make a claim of an air dielectric.

se
- Air dielectric - it costs you nothing, but a little thinking. - cheap-Jack 08:33:43 09/24/07 (2)
  Hi.
  
  It only took me a little thinking. I recall I later came across a 25-year-plus major brandname IC & cords maker in USA claimed using the similar tweak to provide air dielectric for one of its high-end products.
  
  Ideally pure free air dielectric is the best, so bare wire is the best. But we need insulation against electric shorting. So the second best is to use porous materials, like cotton, silk or the like porous materials, but then we start to worry about metal tarnishing due to moisture & chemical pollution. It happens to bare copper, let alone Ag.
  
  We need to take a compromise btween air & insulation. Teflon is the best
  choice being an excellent dielectric & air impermeable, pretty flexible (use thin wall type), & pretty affordably available in various internal diameter.
  
  Simply choose Teflon tubing (I only use PTFE UL 600V rated, made in Germany for my Ag cords) of internal diameters many times larger than the gauge size of the single Ag conductor. By using hot gun to remove the moisture inside the tubing & sealed up both ends of the tube/exposed Ag conductor ends, an air-tight air dielectric environment will be provided for the Ag conductor inside the tubing.
  
  How come? At any time, the round Ag conductor is only in one point contact with the wall of the round Teflon tubing. So the conductor is virtually bathing the dry air trapped inside the tubing !!
  
  Of course, the next task is to provide mechanical protection to the Teflon tubing to ensure the Teflon tubing maintains its round shape at all time.
  
  c-J
  - RE: Air dielectric - it costs you nothing, but a little thinking. - Steve Eddy 09:08:01 09/24/07 (1)
    I had a sneaking suspicion this is what you were going to say which is why I hazarded the answer "You don't" in response to your quiz in your other post.
    
    At any time, the round Ag conductor is only in one point contact with the wall of the round Teflon tubing. So the conductor is virtually bathing the dry air trapped inside the tubing !!
    
    You seem to be overlooking something here. And that is that it's the electric fields , emanating outward from the surface of the conductors, which interacts with the dielectric. So just because the conductor is making point contact with the tubing doesn't mean you have an air dielectric. The dielectric isn't just that which makes contact with the conductor.
    
    The fields are still interacting with the tubing, particularly in the region between the conductors where they're interacting with a double thickness of the tubing.
    
    So no, I don't really see this arrangement as constituting an "air dielectric" in any significant way.
    
    se
    - Did I say "compromise" ? - cheap-Jack 11:40:15 09/24/07 (0)
      Hi.
      
      Surely this is NOT true free air dielectric. Nor any cotton or silk stuff which are in contact of the bare conductor at all time.
      
      But it would be much better situation in term of wave transfer delay due to dielectric reaction with the signal electrical field vs any solid insulation adhered skin-tight to the conductor at all time. We are talking about very weak electrical field due to weak signal level anyway.
      
      Another benefit of this grossly loose tubing arrangement is it will subtantially reduce the cable capacitance (conductor+insulation) as air is least 'capacitive' (e=1).
      
      Basing on the same priniciple, shielding should not be used in audio signal ICs.
      
      c-J
- RE: You could flush the tube - Cpk 12:20:27 09/21/07 (0)
  right you are. I am working on levitating the conductor but so far it has only been successful in a penne pasta tube. Hey how come you couldn't help them out with the ac prong resonance issue? Mine ring like a bitch when in socket, or maybe that's the telephone.
  
  Later ;-)

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