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In Reply to: RE: This long thread just tells me what commercial SETs aren't.... posted by andy evans on September 02, 2017 at 02:01:23
A no compromise SET would limit you to 2 stages MAXIMUM, NO coupling devices of ANY kind (direct coupling), NO filament bias (a source of distortion injection), fast, clean low-DCR power supply, heavy silver wiring throughout, brass tripod mounting of all iron components.Output transformer designed for maximum transfer efficiency and overall performance, with NO preconceived nation or theories about what type sounds best. This is determined by ACTUAL PERFORMANCE of the installed component, not somebody's personal transformer ideals.
Three dimensional internal wiring, with NO wires bundled together for "neatness"-- ALL of them have to be SEPARATED from anyything else, and any wires that cross each other must be at right-angles, and vertically separated as well. Physical separation of all mounted and suspended components is a simple necessity.
-Dennis-
Edits: 09/02/17Follow Ups:
"NO filament bias (a source of distortion injection)."
I wonder what is rationale for this comment?. Injection from where?.
Shunting the filament current through the bias resistor and reducing impedance from filament return wrt signal common, reduction in Rp as a result, and no longer need for Ck bypass in cathode circuit has resulted in a clear improvement to me.
Can I ask - have you built an all DHT amp, I suspect you have. But your comments confuse me.
If you decide to respond, please respond to the actual question in response from filament bias being a source of distortion injection.
Respectfully,
Shane
Maybe we better define filament bias-- what supplies the bias
voltage in your example? Then one could comment...Also, are you aware of the tremendous sonic benefits of self-bias
VS fixed bias?No fixed bias amp has ever reproduced music in a convincing fashion because the bias doesn't vary according to musical demand.
All fixed bias amps sound to me exactly that-- FIXED, not effortlessly flowing as the music is changing.
IF your idea of filament bias includes a power supply for the filament bias, then that power supply is a distortion injection machine, and those effects are easily audible on Hi-Eff speakers.
Biasing using a bias supply (1) doesn't follow musical change well, and (2) is commonly used by salesmen to force tubes to operate at high power,
allowing greater power-per-dollar.Since this max. power level is forced by fixed bias, tubes can be operated close to breakdown, but never go over that limit.
This is a case where more watts equals MUCH less ability to drive a
speaker that has ever-changing musical requirements.One place where old practices and texts were actually right is when
it was noticed, long ago, that self-bias amps greatly outdrive fixed bias models at up to twice the rated power. Jadis (France) took advantage of that and sold a lot of amps in America at lower watt ratings. That bias knowledge was once common, but was conveniently buried as watts-per-dollar became THE sales game.Eventually triodes lost out to pentodes, then tubes lost out to Solid-State. Why? More advertised watts cheaper. Even before solid-state, the game was afoot-- sales people were learning how to get bigger numbers out of tubes.
Self-bias simply outperform fixed bias amps, but there is a cost:
self-biasing using capacitors and a resistor demand a wide-band
capacitor response. No SINGLE capacitor is even remotely capable of providing this.And--- that is why we spend money on very carefully engineered
capacitor bypassing and tuning. It is an attempt to get capacitors
to actually work musically.Since self-bias is superior sonically, the focus falls on the
cathode-bias caps. I'm sorry, but this is the best way to get
an amplifier to talk music, and it costs money whether people
like it or not.-Dennis-
Edits: 09/03/17
Thanks for your reply Dennis.
I can see you get attacked quite a bit - but I take note that you actually have a commercial product which is by all accounts is well reviewed, and having read some of your previous history wrt theatres and studios, I have respect in my questions. I think that would be welcome to you as it seems to be overlooked, or ignored by others.
"Maybe we better define filament bias-- what supplies the bias
voltage in your example? Then one could comment..."
Sure. So for example I have a direct heated input stage which sets up at 110V plate, 3mA Ip and around -4.5Vg. Rp is ~10k. If is 250mA, give or take.
With cathode bias, the Rk would need to be 1500 ohms and (at least in my application) require a bypass condenser.
Being direct heated, I choose DC heating using a commercial kit which does its best to present high impedance to the filament so that the AC signal does not come from, or enter into (conventional vs actual current flow) the DC filament supply.
What that enables is the filament current to be shunted through the bias resistor, so from 3mA it is now 253mA.. and a ~20 ohm 12W resistor suffices.
I hope this answers your question and perhaps is different from what you were thinking.
FWIW though, I have heard some pretty good Japanese amplifiers which run a more traditional fixed bias output stage.. but there is probably more in their recipe than a -ve supply for the output stage (or split supply to the driver in their case as it is).
Respectfully,
Shane
PS. Actually would you mind sending me a PM via the Audio Asylum system (if it works that way). I'd rather learn something that I can use rather than get all emotional and throw the opportunity away.
Thanks.
Filament bias isn't an "attempt to get more power" - that's fixed bias in the old-world sense where it was used for output tubes.
The modern usage is for DHTs, usually but not exclusively in the input section(s). The modern implementation uses sophisticated solid state circuits like Rod Coleman regs (now version 7) and choke input filament supplies. This is not trivial engineering - it's been very well thought out and has a LOT of users around the world.
I'm not particularly surprised you don't understand the sonic benefits since
1. You don't use DHTs in the input section
2. You believe that cathode bypass caps are an acceptable alternative. I don't, and I've tested plenty.
Since you can't do a direct comparison, it's pretty meaningless trying to compare the sonic results.
Honest observations, but cathode bias CAN be done right.
This does avoid installing chips designed by geniuses.
It's no longer a tube amplifier if solid state devices
are used in the amp, it's a hybrid.
Sonically, I prefer the sound of a vacuum tube acting
alone-- with no devices or control devices attached to
it, even if that's another vacuum tube.
The good thing about cathode bias is that you're using
only passive devices on the cathode. The "bad"
(as in expensive) thing about it is that it
requires multiples of expensive caps, no one cap
can even begin to work at the highest audio performance
levels. Also, the cathode resistor had better be the
world's best resistor. (Tiny audio currents thru the
resistor not withstanding).
I appreciate your comments and I always enjoy learning
from other worlds.
-Dennis-
"It's no longer a tube amplifier if solid state devices
are used in the amp, it's a hybrid."
That's not how a hybrid is defined.
If the solid state devices modify or directly influence the signal path, it's a hybrid. I'll add that the difference between a MOSFET that is obvious in its role of amplifying the signal and one that appears to reject the signal (such as occurs with a CCS) is illusion only.
--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
so you can sensibly use SS stuff when you want to.
cheers,
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
That would appear to be a definition that is only accepted/proposed here.
Cracks me up to look at AA for the first time in maybe a year, and still nothing has changed since 2010. Some poor guy asks for some advice on components and we see the thread deteriorate rapidly into a sort of audio theory acid trip.
To the OP, a rule of thumb that has been used to pretty good effect is you want to be able to hit roughly 102dB peaks. That's instantaneous peaks, not average listening level. The industry standard (recording industry, not audiophile jewelry industry) average listening level is around 82dB, the 102dB is a headroom allowance. Not everyone listens at that 82 dB average level, but it's a good starting point for most as much over 85dB average can cause hearing damage with extended exposure. This implies that you can do the job with a 93dB sensitivity speaker and an 8W 300B amp. Saying things like the falloff at a distance greater than 1M negates the utility of the 1M loudness level figure in a large room shows a lack of practical experience. The reverberant field in the room dominates at mid field listening distances and thus one can pretty much use the 1M distance loudness figure to determine required power at the listening distance unless your system is sitting on the top of a mountain. My experience has been that this approach works quite well.
All of this of course hinges upon how honest the loudspeaker manufacturer is about the sensitivity of their speaker. Suffice it to say I think it is worth questioning a lot of the published specs.
when working out whether my amp will have enough juice. PJ has shared it a few times times in the past.
Yes, an acid trip is right. I mostly stay out of it these days... Where else is there to go? DIYaudio is worse; other non-commercial forums are either not technical enough or just plain goofy.
I generally like it here, but I miss some of the old contributors and wish that threads stayed within a yell of being on topic (yes, I'm guilty as well).
Cheers,
91.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
Yes we need Steve Eddie and more of the old timers on here back :)
fun reading for sure
Lawrence
Yes, now if you use a tube rectifier with a high voltage mosfet amp, Audio Asylum declares that it's a hybrid!
I totally agree on parts quality in simple circuits like we use - everything counts. I do constant cathode resistor tests and sometimes get surprising results, like Russian ex-military parts. I don't use bypasses so no issues there.
I've come to value the solid state stuff I use. Regretfully I can't design it - I just know tube circuits. But I do know smart guys who can do all the clever stuff, and some of it is very clever indeed and quite innovative. For me DHTs and solid state are where it's at right now, though I confess that my input tube right now uses a plate choke. Whatever sounds best!
Solid state engineering has continued to progress,
and devices get better and better.
Most solid state amps sound different than most tube
amps, but nearly all of both can often leave you cheated
when it comes to listening to music.
One company that I never tire of is Berkeley Audio Design,
and Spectral. These guys often work together. The older
reference to these guys was Pacific Microsonics.
I continue to admire Bob and Phil at Lynx Studio Technology.
Bob is mostly engineer, Phil is mostly applications, but
both of them often wear both hats.
And Hats Off to both of them, them, I say!
-Dennis-
Again you are off topic and not helpful.
"No fixed bias amp has ever reproduced music in a convincing fashion because the bias doesn't vary according to musical demand."
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
It sound like you think that the bias in a self-biased circuit does vary according to musical demand?
Dennis, let me ask you one simple question.
Does the "musical demand" (signal AC) flow through the cathode resistor in a self-biased circuit?
Dennis, this is a yes or no question.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Yes, it does, some of it. Some signal goes thru the resistor,
much of it through the capacitors.. The caps, of course
conduct mostly A.C. Any D.C. component through them is
due to capacitor leakage.The cathode resistor conducts both A.C.(signal) and D.C.,
and it generates artifacts concerning both. Not only does
the capacitor conduct signal, but it is also a filter in
that it shunts the resistor concerning the part of the
A.C. signal that is flowing thru the resistor.What you have here is two signal conducting devices--
the resistor and the caps-- the resistor conducts most
of the D.C., and plenty of A.C., and the caps conduct
nearly all A.C.It's a small composite SYSTEM.
Each component has a profound effect on the sound
qualities of the tube's plate and cathode signals.-Dennis-
Edits: 09/03/17 09/03/17
"Yes, it does, some of it. Some signal goes thru the resistor"Sure, some of it does.
let's say you have a 1000 ohm cathode resistor and a 100uf bypass cap.
What portion of a 1000Hz AC signal flows through the resistor?
Let's do the math.
The reactance of the cap at 1000Hz is 1.592 ohms.
So you have a 1000 ohm resistor shunted by a 1.592 ohm resistor.
Let's just pick .1 volts AC at the cathode,
62.814ma flowing through the cap1 / 1.592 = .062814 amps
And .1ma flowing through the resistor.
1 / 1000 = .0001 amps
"Each component has a profound effect on the sound qualities
of the tube's plate and cathode signals. "So you are saying that the cathode resistor that is conducting less than 1/628th of the total AC current at 1000Hz has a profound effect on what the 1000Hz AC signal will sound like? Get real Dennis.
Maybe at lower frequencies where the reactance of the cap is higher but the whole point of a bypass cap is to make it's value is such that the reactance at the lowest frequency of interest is a small fraction of the value of the cathode resistor.*
I'm sure in your design (where the cathode by pass cap is too small) the resistor does carry a lot of low frequency AC (a lot more than it should) and that resistor does make a profound effect on the sound but that's only because your design is flawed.
If you let too much (anything more than a tiny fraction) of the AC flow through the resistor instead of the cap then the bias will change.
That means you will have negative current feedback applied to your output tube and it's plate resistance will increase and the load line will rotate towards the vertical and that will cause an increase of the harmonic distortion as well as a loss of damping factor. (And none of that has anything to do with the sonic properties of the resistor used.)
but you knew all that, right Dennis?
* note, it's really the value of the cathode resistor in parallel with the impedance of the cathode but that discussion is for a different time.P.S. I hope everyone will excuse me for calling 1/628th "none". In my defense, it is very close to none.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 09/03/17 09/03/17
How about comparing that current( the nearly none )to the driver plate current. The percentage is now significant...LOL
All in all, I think *ALL* folks interested in a SE amp should buy one of Dennis-es amps. Wishing you a multitude of sales Dennis!!!
cheers,
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
I like my flawed design.
It certainly has a way with music, it
almost never fails or suffers any kind of
breakdown, and some people consider it an
example of Industrial Art, and are collecting
them!
There is, of course, a certain hazard in
playing with this kind of equipment when
married: If you are listening to music
because you are enthralled by it, instead
of listening to the "Honey-Do" list--
especially-- then you may indeed see this
design as flawed, when marital distress
occurs!
I do like it, however. I'm proud of it!
-Dennis-
As Tre says: "honest"... and demonstrates a quiet strength absent in the strongly-worded machismo commonly posted here.
Despite my criticism of (your) absolutist posts/ stance and question your technical explanations at times, I respect your passion, uncompromising experimentation, and unwillingness to be boxed in by expert opinion and traditional methods. I'd like to meet you some day and listen to your system.
Take care.
Cheers,
91.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
Got a ticket to Denver?
RMAF 2017, Room 3017.
-Dennis-
Unfortunately not. The flight from Australia's East Coast is brutal.
Cheers,
91
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
WHAT a MESS!
-Dennis-
Dennis, you only see what I posted as being a "MESS" because it's over your head (over your level of understanding).You didn't understand a thing I said.
Read a book. This stuff is not that complicated. You can learn to understand it if you try.
I believe this would help you in the long run.
You could build a circuit the right way (technically speaking) and if you don't like the way it sounds you could then "tweak" it to get the sound you like instead of just doing the whole thing experimentally.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 09/04/17
I wouldn't bother trying to argue his points. There's plenty of measurable evidence that contradicts several of his claims. Claiming that filament bias "injects distortion" is something that could easily be proven with a few hours of basic measurements, but why do that when you can just claim to be the omniscient SET authority!
I don't understand why the "Bored" puts up with him.
It's one thing for a person to have an opinion on how this or that circuit sounds but Dennis has made so many proclamations on technical matters that are patently false.
I can't decide if he is really that ignorant or if he's just playing a game for financial gain.
Thanks for the input CB.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Maybe the Bored would like to answer your inquiry?
the ac does not flow through the cathode resistor.It flow through the bypass cap that has a very low reactance to all frequencies of interest if it's the right uf value.
Therefore the bias DOES NOT vary "according to musical demand".
What did you think the bypass cap was for other than holding the bias steady?
That is the sole purpose of a cathode bypass cap.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 09/03/17
That's PART of the story-- the caps certainly steady
the voltage.That's not all there is to it by a long shot!
You have to get an amplifier to accurately track music.
In order to do that, you have to think outside the box
on many areas of concern.You're firmly grounded inside the BOX!
Things must be very comfortable in there...
Theories are changed as performance increases-- in
all areas of human endeavor.I use, invent, or learn what I need to get that
performance. I DISCARD any theory that
doesn't deliver the goods.-Dennis
Edits: 09/03/17
"the caps certainly steady
the voltage."
I thought you said that in a self-biased the bias varies according to musical demand.
When you said "No fixed bias amp has ever reproduced music in a convincing fashion because the bias doesn't vary according to musical demand." is that not the same as saying that in a self-biased circuit the bias does vary with the musical demand?
Which is it Dennis?
Does the bias stay steady or does the bias vary in a self-biased design?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Things that happen simultaneously in degrees aren't
well explained with absolutist calculations.
As usual, I will be going by actual performance.
Theory does come in, but ONLY when IT CONTRIBUTES.
-Dennis-
"Things that happen simultaneously in degrees aren't
well explained with absolutist calculations."Yes they are.
As the frequency falls the reactance of the capacitor increases and more of the total current flows through the resistor.
If we want 20Hz to flow only through the cap (and not cause current feedback to be applied to the tube) then we design the filter so that it's -3db point is a decade below 20Hz.
With a -3db point of 2Hz the phase and amplitude will be back to flat by 20Hz and virtually no AC will be flowing through the resistor.
What is the -3db point of the filter created by the (cathode resistor in parallel with the cathode impedance) and the value you picked for your cathode bypass cap.
If you give me the numbers I can show you how much of the AC is going through the resistor at any frequency you're interested in.
I can even tell you how much negative current feedback you are applying to the output tube at any frequency you're interested in and how much that increased the output tube's plate resistance and what that does to the damping factor of the amplifier.
All of these complex situations are easily explained with absolutist calculations.
BTW whether you know it or not it's that local current feedback that gives you the sound you are looking for. Your circuit design is technically wrong but you won't admit that. The fact is you're just building for a sound, an effect.
That's OK, we probably all do but most of us admit to it.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 09/04/17 09/04/17
as it is clearly better than the others...and by a long chalk.
Was LMAO a bit, we now have Energy Conservation being abused along with Transfer Efficiency...:)
cheers,
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
speaking of Transfer eff, its a real phenomenon in that a tube driver uses a IT and good transfer eff is VERY important.
you could also apply this to the output transformer too :)
Lawrence
I understand your faith in being able to
calculate anything you want.
I don't tweak, period. I listen to the best
recordings available on the best equipment available.
I have owned movie theatres, and have designed and built
many a Stadium Theatre. Most theatres have bad sound--
but not very bad-- if the owners keep up with maintenance.
I have, over the years, enjoyed hearing and measuring
and observing in theatres, what it takes to totally
involve people in the presentation, and take the sound
system out of the equation-- make it so good that no one
notices it-- just what is happening.
My standard for HOME playback is the sound that is
factory encoded on L.P.'s, CD's, and on-line
Hi-Resolution downloads.
This is compared to studio master recordings, and
also to the systems that competitors have at audio
shows, and to people's own home systems.
I ask an amplifier to play back any and all of
these sources with verbatim accuracy-- at the point
that counts-- the speaker or headphone interface to
the listener..
I have found over the years, several solid state
amplifiers that will do this very well.
In order to have vacuum tubes do the same thing
well, the tube amp had to be condensed into a form
that would do this simply because all the other
tube amps I have applied, or heard-- have fallen
woefully short.
I haven't mentioned this lately on a forum, so
I'll just repeat it here: I NEVER build anything
unless I HAVE TO. I MUCH prefer to BUY it.
In the case of vacuum tube amplifiers, the
existing technology and construction methods
were absolutely hopeless. So, I FIXED that
problem. And, FIXED it is!
It's too bad that it's so controversial with you.
Actually, all it is is energy conservation applied
at every level, and superior layout and construction
methods, coupled with the use of really good parts.
Circuit operating values are super conservative
because I don't like the sound of stressed vacuum
tubes that every other tube amp I ever heard displays,
if played on large radiating area, point-source,
speakers that are over 100db/watt efficiency. The
GOOD amps-- including a few over 200 watt solid state
models, will play well on such speakers.
Nearly all tube amps that have been, or are being
built fall short in many ways.
If you're a modifier, you can rescue some older tube
amps by lowering voltages and currents, using better
parts, mounting iron on brass standoffs, and re-wiring
the whole thing..
If you do that, you're still coming up a bit short--
but much better--, so why not just start over and
design something that is sure to work?
It does!
-Dennis-
I think it depends on whether the foil hat is on or off.
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Dennis I think people would be more inclined if you explained more about exactly what determines a good OPT instead of just saying what you say about very colorful words but not much to go on, please elaborate did you give mikey specifications for your outputs? or did you give general specifications? IMO the best of the best would be Torroidal OPT there transfer characteristics cannot be beat!. this is all elementary my dear dennis :)
Looking forward to hearing your system at RMA fest
Lawrence
Hi Lawrence!
Believe it or not, it's all specific to your needs.
Mikey and I have been sharing ideas and tech for a few years--
he has been so kind as to wind some things for me that no one,
including Mike really thought made total sense. Mike is brilliant
and thinks along with the user, and can get things made that are way
out there-- if needed.
You might say the gentleman let me have what I wanted-- within
practical limitations, of course.
Toroidals are good for total efficiency and bandwidth, but do have
some overlay/winding issues that you may or may not wish to listen to.
The best push/pulls I've listened to had toroidals. It's possibly
the ability of a p/p circuit to cancel-out some distortions that allow
good overall performance at the speaker. With SET, not always so much so.
I have some "R" cores in stock, and am evaluating them. I started with 10 units-- we'll see if I continue with them. So far, (this is a SET)
Highs have been stellar-- very extended and very low distortion. Midrange
rivals my custom Maggies, bottom end is clean, but not as extended as
with the Maggies. More break-in is required on the test amps before I
will know anything. I evaluate transformers normally at 1000, 1600, and 2500 hour points.
This is accumulated time, not continuous operation. Leaving an amp
running doesn't offer good break-in. On and off cycles DO, but run times should be an hour or more-- best is 4 hour runs, playing everything you like at normal levels, and louder as you desire.
These are just general observations and cannot be considered Gospel.
My take on your post is that one can get a great output transformer in any of these build methods. It depends much more on who winds it, and what
his standards and materials are.
Denver's coming up on Oct. 6, 7, and 8, so I'm going to be less on
here. RMAF 2017 looks like fun, so I will do it in Room 3017.
See 'ya, Lawrence!
-Dennis-
Dennis, will you be viewing a record system this year at RMA?
Lawrence
Yes. I will have vinyl L.P.'s, computer audio and can directly play a CD on the Pioneer Blu-Ray deck, their flagship-- model BDP-88FD.
In case this deck is used, the SPDIF signal is routed to my Aplha-DAC2 D/A converter-- just the same as is our Windows 7 computer library, using JRIVER protocol.
I LOVE this new Pioneer toy. Best Blu-Ray and DVD picture I ever got, and very good audio. The unit has its own D/A converter which I don't use because I have the Berkeley DAC, but it is very good. You just drive
into a passive attenuator via RCA jacks, and then into your amps.
RMAF 2017 is Oct. 6, 7, and 8 and I'm in Room 3017.
-Dennis-
Very Kool, I have some pipe organ records and some stuff to put to "THE" test :)
Jeff speaks very highly of your stuff :) can't wait to hear it all!
Oh BTW R-core is kinda close to torroids but with more Loss! because of the split winding like lundahl, and less bandwidth. Single ended is tricky I get that :)
seeya soon
Lawrence
Hi Lawrence. Look me up when you're there-- I'd love to meet you.Most demo rooms have 1 or 2 guys and live in that room for 3 days.
We really try to get out and about and hear all the other guy's rigs,
remember that these folks put hard work into their demos, and it's
good for them to get a visit from at least one of us who is a DIY person, and is ALSO Commercial.That means we take turns running the room. To see any one of us, just tell the guys there, and they'll cell-phone the guy you wish to see.
My vinyl rig uses a direct-drive TT, a Clearaudio Maestro Ebony V-2-- their top medium-output cart., and I have hard-wired the tonearm interconnect (Cardas Silver) to run all the way to the Phono stage with NO RCA jacks.
This was necessary to get L.P. records to perform with Hi-Res digital.
They can do it, and slightly better, but only a few L.P.'s are really that good.The ones I like best are RCA's, Deccas, and Warner Bros., and especially Ranwood and Monument, Longines Symphonette, and Reader's Digest recordings. I have a good MCA/Longines of some Lawrence Welk material that is a good example of how to record right.
As you can see, with me, the "audiophile" stuff is missing. And I sure don't miss it!
There's lots more, of course!
I'm very busy right now, getting ready for Denver and doing the many Summer chores around here, and in a neighboring city where we have
rental spaces to keep up.I won't be getting technical with anyone on the forum if it involves playing internet chess-- or thinking too much until life settles down after RMAF 2017.
Actually. what I really like is DOING. Theories on anything and everything abound, and anything that even slightly worked in the past quickly becomes "textbook accuracy", and is taught and obeyed to the letter.. It seems perfect because its proponents have developed the mathematics and proofs needed to sell it, until the next theory shoves it aside, and develops its own math and proponents.
It's History at work. Theories and their proofs only interest me if I need them. If I do, then I will listen to any and all on the subject at
hand... I can learn a lot from anyone, past or present. If I NEED to for a GOOD reason-- that is truly WORTH THE PRECIOUS T I M E involved..Life does limit one's time, so what needs attention and pays for it, and makes it truly useful gets the attention.
I look forward to finally meeting you just for fun!!
-Dennis-
Edits: 09/02/17
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