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In Reply to: RE: Help me pick SET monoblocks posted by MylesJ on August 20, 2017 at 14:52:53
I just want to point out that 93dB/W/M is not "SET friendly." Your chip amp turns to mush at higher volumes because it's clipping. This is an indicator you'll need more power or higher efficiency for your preferred listening levels. I don't know how you arrived at 20W as the required power level, but I think that's incredibly optimistic for the scenario you're describing. Even a relatively high power SET needs 98-100dB/W/M minimum speakers for this job.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Edits: 08/21/17Follow Ups:
I think the SET friendly claim on the AN-Js is that impedance is fairly stable at nominal 6 and minimum 5. Compared to Dynaudios they are sensitive. The Dynes need over 200 watts to shine.
I know the chip amp is a cheapie that has no power stiffening and starts clipping at 15% or so of claimed output. It is a nice way to put out some big horns and a car battery for a party in the middle of nowhere, or some low level listening indoors.
I used a couple different calculators to come up with the 20 watts. I figured Crown would want to sell you as much amp as they can. Their model with seating 2.5 meters away, 93db speakers, 95 db volume at the seating position and 3 db for overhead gives a 20 watt result.
I want to hear for myself if I think that the lowest power tube that works provides the best overall sound.
"Their model with seating 2.5 meters away, 93db speakers, 95 db volume at the seating position and 3 db for overhead gives a 20 watt result."20 watts won't produce clean 95 dB SPL average volume in this scenario for musical reproduction. Peak to average power of music far exceeds 3 dB. Check out the link below, particularly the section near the end titled "PEAK POWER VERSUS SPL."
FWIW, I'm not trying to tell you that the results of what you're proposing won't be satisfactory for your own personal listening preferences. I can only tell you that the combination of components you're describing won't approach realistic levels for orchestral playback. My own system at the moment consists of 4.5W/ch SETs and speakers that are 97-98 dB efficient in a fairly small living room. Maximum average SPL is far below the SS systems I owned years ago, and judicious use of the volume control is always required to avoid saturation. This limitation is much relieved with 25W/ch, and that's the minimum power level anyone should be recommending for use with 93 dB speakers.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Edits: 08/23/17
Triode - I'm not looking for 95db average volume. My base listening level for classical is 75db to 80db average. Giving 20 db for louder passages gets me to 95db and 3db for overhead.
My hearing is good for my age. I'm not interested in spending hours at a time at 95 db minimums.
My other system is a 225wpc 4 ohm PSAudio HCA with Dynaudios and a sub and it can play way too loud. Part of the design of the new system is to have a lower power rig to relearn about and compare. My last tube amp was a Fisher 101 that I traded in about 35 years ago on a 100wpc Mitsubishi PA and DA 10 combination.
I thought about a First Watt and then decided I would rather get back into electronics as a hobby.
Well Triode Kimgdom you have made me tale my own advice when I tell people to buy a preamp and have the ability to just connect different power amps for their strengths.
This is a nice solution and you can have it all. Romantic low powered tube amps, high power tube amps, SS amps of ridiculous power.
So the Audio Note M3 Phono arrives tomorrow with the Dac O.1x. The M8 will be a down the road thing. No taxes in Hong Kong sure saves money too.
Excellent! I'm in the process of building my own "ultra" high quality preamp at the moment. I think it's essential to get that out of the way first for a high end system. I didn't do that initially, and I regret it.
Hong Kong, eh? I've only ever traveled there by going through the airport. Lived in Nanjing nearly a year in '97, and have visited mainland China many times since then - Beijing, Shanghai, Chengdu, Xian, etc. Really a different world...
Glad you found a process that works for you. I think you're on the right path!
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
You have to take your own advice sometimes and I have been screwing around too much with Chinese made gear not really going for what I want.
I went to the dealer to buy an M1 Phono and DAC. But as a good dealer does they get you to go up a level or two. I usually say level 3 is the sweet spot as prices skyrocket after level 3. I am trying to buy a house next summer and so going ridiculous on stereo gear is silly.
I lived in Wenzhou in Zeizang province for a year - trust me avoid this place. I am amazed how dirty it was. And still didn't rank in the ten dirties cities in China. Hangzhou which is a few hours away was great though - clean clear and beautiful. It's a country of opposites.
Much of western China is like that, too. One of our challenges during a trip to Chengdu and other parts of Sichuan Province a few years ago was simply finding clean places to eat. It was much worse than the eastern cities; filth and dirt everywhere. Yes, Hangzhou is a beautiful city, especially around West Lake. Lots of Chinese tourists and commercialism now, but that's the case nearly everywhere that's worth seeing. Even our favorite out-of-the-way places to access the Great Wall have become overrun. :)
Good luck with the gear!
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Ahh that's the part I missed - I would agree with you that if you are listening to full orchestral music and you are expecting the same level you get at such an event then small amps with 93db (or even 97db) in a medium/large room isn't going to happen.
I would go back to my altenrate suggestion of buying a preamp and then buying SS watts (which are cheap). Virtually any so called high end SS power amp from 10 years ago selling at car prices can be had for $2k or less now. So getting a 300 watt per channel amplifier is very easy to find. There were some Threshold monoblocks here for a few hundred bucks. Then for the rest of the music run the high quality less "pushy" sounding amplifiers.
One note I should personally make is that I live in Hong Kong where apartments are small albeit with high ceilings. And even in my room I am contemplating buying an M6 Phono preamp with Empress monoblocks (7 watts). On the other hand the Jinro/Tomei integrated is appealing at ~18 watts per channel.
My thinking (now that I read what music and level you demand) is somewhat more in line with you now as one day I will move back to Canada and will be in a larger room. As such - I am now more considering the Jinro/Tomei.
LOL - Damn You - I'm going to go audition the Jinro/Tomei again and bring some full tilt music :). Not really Dam You - The Jinro has called to me for 5 years. The 219IA was my poor man's Jinro...The Jinro is a poor man's Ongaku. But since the Jinro is the third closest thing to an Ongaku in existence (second being Tomei) then I'll have to put it back to the top of the list.
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