Planar Speaker Asylum

Welcome! Need support, you got it. Or share your ideas and experiences.

Planar Speaker Asylum

Tympani 1D versus 3 series

73.96.162.209

In Reply to: RE: "goryu posted: I know where there is a set of factory-restored Tympani IVa's!" ... posted by andyr on December 04, 2023 at 18:00:42

So would a Tympani 1D exhibit any obvious advantages over a 3 series that might outweigh the lack of ribbon?

Follow Ups:

RE: Tympani 1D versus 3 series - UncleMeat 00:22:51 12/05/23 (35)
Tympani 1D's should have a fuller bass note than MG-IIIa or 3.7's, with roughly twice the area of bass drivers. They don't have the Magnepan true-ribbon, but they do have a push-pull driven planar tweeter. I don't know what the process is for re-building the push-pull tweeter, if it can be DIY repaired or if it needs to be sent in to Magnepan if it's non-op.

Another option might be to buy true ribbons from Magnepan and modify the panel containing the mid/ribbon to run a true ribbon. MUG specs page lists them as 2-way with 6 screens. I don't know if the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D also does some of the midrange or if there is a separate midrange driver.
- RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... - andyr 02:25:47 12/05/23 (34)
  A mate of mine has a pair of T1-Ds.
  
  They consist (each side) of:
  * 2x bass panels - one is 'tuned' to a higher FR than the other
  * and a mid/tweeter panel.
  
  IE. there is not a separate tweeter, as well as the mid panel.
  
  Yes, the push/pull tweeter can be re-wired.
  - RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... - UncleMeat 07:32:55 12/05/23 (33)
    Does the panel with the P-P tweeter have enough room for a true ribbon next to it? Seems like it would be an easy upgrade to get them up to T-IV performance, add the ribbon and a crossover network to shift HF work over to the ribbon.
    
    The T-IV also has a tuned mid-bass panel and a LF bass panel. I wonder if the mid-bass is tuned the same as the T1-D was.
    - RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... - andyr 13:55:17 12/05/23 (32)
      You asked: Does the panel with the P-P tweeter have enough room for a true ribbon next to it?
      
      Yes ... and no! :-))
      
      The way Magnepan built the mid panel ... there is no way to add a ribbon tweeter assembly.
      
      But it is pretty simple to construct a new mid panel frame - which can take the ribbon-assembly, as well as the what-will-now-be-the mid panel. That's exactly what my mate with the T1-Ds did.
      - RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... - Roger Gustavsson 01:52:22 12/06/23 (27)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... posted by andyr on December 05, 2023 at 13:55:17
        
        With Tympani ID, there is room for a ribbon tweeter next to the original pus-pull Magneplanar tweeter. The whole push-pull tweeter is a bit weird, its overall width is very wide, about 8 inches. The diaphragm itself is only 6 cm wide. It can be cut down to 10 cm and then the ribbon next to it. Of course, you need to rebuild the baffle., which is very flimsy. Still, it is a bit of a compromise as the original ID tweeter is crossed over to the bass drivers at 1 kHz. I think, a midrange driver operating down to 300-500 Hz would be better with the ribbon tweeter. The tweeter of the ID does have a bit of the cavity resonace often found in push-pull drivers. There is a peak at 7.5 kHz.
        
        Below, the response without crossover, fundamental resonance seems to be at about 400 Hz.
        
        Here the wide tweeter can be seen on the left. Having the drivers closer to each other help the imaging greatly!
        
        RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... - UncleMeat 00:52:04 12/07/23 (26)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... posted by Roger Gustavsson on December 06, 2023 at 01:52:22
        
        By the looks of that photo of the back side of the T1-D P/P driver panel, a Magnepan Ribbon should easily fit next to it. That large diameter inductor at the lower left would probably need to be re-located but otherwise, looks like it's do-able!
        
        Current price for a pair of ribbons from Magnepan is about 1k unless you have cores from another set of speakers you could swap for. Still, not too bad considering the SQ you would get with a set of T1-D's that have added ribbons.
        
        RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... - Roger Gustavsson 06:53:39 12/07/23 (25)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... posted by UncleMeat on December 07, 2023 at 00:52:04
        
        It is do-able. Not that the thin (1/8") Masonite board is very suitable for mounting the drivers to.
        
        There are a few things that can be made differently. Like removing the drivers from the original baffles (well... maybe there is a better word for it in this case). The push-pull tweeter can be cut down in width in order to allow the drivers to be mounted closer to each other in a new baffle/supporting frame. The width of the speaker will shrink, making it suited (a must almost) to "the narrow room setup" as for the T-IVa. Low bass close to the side walls, then midbass and the tweeter on the inside. Adding a ribbon is also possible.
        
        I dislike having directional information from all the three drivers. A new crossover may be the way to go. The first order slope of the push-pull tweeter is probably better replaced by a steeper order one, maybe at lower frequency (700-800 Hz?). I would also like the low bass driver to be rolled off earlier, maybe at 350-400 Hz, leaving the mid bass going up to 700-800 Hz. Adding a ribbon tweeter maybe at 5 kHz. This calls for some experiment...
        
        Outline of a cut-down tweeter.
        
        RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... - UncleMeat 07:34:29 12/07/23 (24)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... posted by Roger Gustavsson on December 07, 2023 at 06:53:39
        
        At minimum some strips to shim the ribbon to the correct depth so it's not protruding in the front, or a new MDF panel to get everything installed in better cutouts would be needed.
        
        Not sure about rolling the bass drivers off earlier, IIRC the second panel is a mid-bass driver, tuned to the area where you want to reduce the response of the bass panels (500-800Hz). If you roll the bass off too early you could end up with a hole in the sound if the mid can't be driven that low. You would also be sacrificing the radiating area of the mid-bass driver since it won't operate in the low-bass frequencies.
        
        There isn't a lot of directional sound at those low frequencies, maybe with drums in live performances or low freq. wind instruments mic'd for location in an orchestra performance? I agree that time/distance alignment will help with image, but there might not be very much stereo program at those low frequencies. Some sacrifice of time alignment is a necessary evil with multi-panel drivers like the Tympani(s), unless you go to active crossover/time alignment with delays to account for distance.
        
        RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... - Roger Gustavsson 09:04:02 12/07/23 (23)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... posted by UncleMeat on December 07, 2023 at 07:34:29
        
        Maybe I was not clear. The low bass up to about 400 Hz and the midbass to 800 Hz. The push-pull tweeter above 800 Hz. Yes, I am aware there will be some fiddling with a suitable crossover. I prefer to use active crossovers. Well, there is a difference between the Tympani IIIA or IIIB to the Tympani ID in imaging. The "wide mouth" effect of my modified IIIA back then was far less present than through the ID.
        
        RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... - UncleMeat 10:15:06 12/07/23 (22)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... posted by Roger Gustavsson on December 07, 2023 at 09:04:02
        
        Yes, that sounds about right for crossover freq's. Does the 1-D have a separate crossover section for the mid-bass driver? I'm curious about my T-IV's, why there is no XO filter for that panel.
        
        The on the photo of the T1-D P-P tweeter panel, are the horizontal cuts and those curved cuts at the bottom in the MDF to reduce resonance of the panel? Seems like it would have been better to leave unused areas thicker of MDF instead of hollowing it all out and then trying to dampen the thinner section. Maybe it was a weight consideration for shipping/handling
        
        RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... - Roger Gustavsson 02:12:18 12/08/23 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... posted by UncleMeat on December 07, 2023 at 10:15:06
        
        "The on the photo of the T1-D P-P tweeter panel, are the horizontal cuts and those curved cuts at the bottom in the MDF to reduce resonance of the panel? Seems like it would have been better to leave unused areas thicker of MDF instead of hollowing it all out and then trying to dampen the thinner section. Maybe it was a weight consideration for shipping/handling."
        
        Tympani ID is not MDF like later models. The thin sheet of Masonite is glued to some particle board frames covered with the usual metal strips. The picture below show one of the bass panels.
        
        Acquired MGIIIA - Beardy 22:42:52 12/07/23 (20)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... posted by UncleMeat on December 07, 2023 at 10:15:06
        
        I found a pair of MGIIIA and the ribbons look in great shape and they play OK.
        Bass bloats a bit when the volume is higher but seems better behaved at lower levels - not sure what that is about.
        Otherwise they seem a fair bit more bass heavy than the 1.6QRs (more than I am used to), but I do like the highs.
        
        I have 14 days to return them and freedom to whip the socks off and check them out. Aside from playing them and performing a visual check on the ribbons and panels is there anything else I need to do?
        
        RE: Acquired MGIIIA - UncleMeat 03:01:32 12/08/23 (19)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Acquired MGIIIA posted by Beardy on December 07, 2023 at 22:42:52
        
        It's possible that the bass panel wires are delaminating from the mylar. It's a very common problem. The wires are aluminum and tend to corrode over time as well and go open circuit, despite being insulated/coated wire. Try running the palm of your hand up the back side of the panel near the top and bottom, gently. If you feel lifted wires at either end you will know without having to remove the speaker cloth.
        
        If you do remove the cloth, keep in mind that it's got a ton of staples holding it on at the bottom edge and usually removing them is going to cause fabric tears or runs that might make it useless to put back on. Maagnepan doesn't use the burlap fabric anymore so you would be stuck if you decided to try to return them after removing the cloth. Decide if you are willing to keep and rebuild them or have magnepan rebuild them before taking the speaker cloth off of them.
        
        Yes there could also be a tear in the mylar causing a bass note problem. No real way of knowing until the cloth comes off. Whatever is wrong in there can be fixed, it's just a matter of time/expense and whether it needs to be serviced by Magnepan or not.
        
        At what volume do you start to hear bass distortion? Another possibility is the the bass panel mylar has stretched and not taught enough to prevent it from slapping the magnet screen.
        
        RE: Acquired MGIIIA - Beardy 08:09:44 12/08/23 (18)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Acquired MGIIIA posted by UncleMeat on December 08, 2023 at 03:01:32
        
        Its not a slap and I dont hear "snare drum" like rattling or buzzing. Its just like the bass goes soft (rounded, blobby?!), maybe smeared is a better term. I've only had them for a couple of hours so need to spend a bit more time working out what I am hearing.
        May of course be something in the amplifier chain, but volumes are not massive and XPA-200 should do 240W into 4 ohms, so I don't think I am pushing it.
        Could be something in the 35 year old crossover electronics.
        
        Regardless lots learn and play with.
        
        RE: Acquired MGIIIA - UncleMeat 08:20:22 12/08/23 (17)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Acquired MGIIIA posted by Beardy on December 08, 2023 at 08:09:44
        
        Bad electrolytic caps in the crossover boxes is definitely a possibility with muddy sounding lows. Sometimes they are just stubborn about charging if they have been sitting unused for a long time.
        
        RE: Acquired MGIIIA - UncleMeat 17:28:50 12/08/23 (16)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Acquired MGIIIA posted by UncleMeat on December 08, 2023 at 08:20:22
        
        Also, double check the phase of the inputs/outputs at the XO box. If OK, then try inverting the input to the XO box, it could be that the absolute phase is inverted.
        
        If that doesn't improve the bass note, try reversing the bass connection between the XO box and the speaker, just in case the bass panels are internally wired backwards (not likely but stranger things have happened).
        
        RE: Acquired MGIIIA - Beardy 20:54:41 12/08/23 (15)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Acquired MGIIIA posted by UncleMeat on December 08, 2023 at 17:28:50
        
        I have since spent more time listening with more familiar music and at reasonable volume levels it seems fine. I think it was a combination of factors, not the least of which was a crappy choice of media.
        PS Ribbons are great
        
        Edits: 12/09/23
        
        RE: Acquired MGIIIA - UncleMeat 01:19:06 12/19/23 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Acquired MGIIIA posted by Beardy on December 08, 2023 at 20:54:41
        
        I just got a pair of IIIa's from a recycler for cheap. They only had one mid and one bass driver working when first tested. Checked the ribbons, both were not soldered correctly. I attached jumpers just to get them working, and gave a listen for a couple of nights. To get some balance in the bass/mids I connected one T-IV bass panel to the bass output section of the IIIa crossover box (not ideal, but to get -some- balance, it worked).
        
        My initial impression is that the IIIa is much more forward in the midrange than my modified T-IVa's. It's good in the sense that the vocals are more forward in the presentation, but a bit of a loss in the total image because the musical program gets reduced, at least in the mid-highs and the mid-lows. This could be a reason why people tend to consider them 'power hungry'. Increasing volume will bring up the background, and your ears will attenuate the vocals as SPL increases.
        
        Keep in mind that I didn't do any proper placement, or room EQ and they were sitting directly in front of the T-IVs. Still, amazing sounding even as such. The extreme highs seemed to have a bit more sparkle than the T-IV's do so I'll be looking into why that is, but it could be lack of room EQ on that issue.
        
        RE: "Ribbons are great" ... - andyr 19:27:06 12/09/23 (13)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Acquired MGIIIA posted by Beardy on December 08, 2023 at 20:54:41
        
        That's great to hear! :-))
        
        Maybe your next step - just because you can , with the IIIAs - is to replace the external XO box with an active XO ... and actively bi-ap them!
        
        RE: "Ribbons are great" ... - Beardy 23:26:56 12/09/23 (12)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "Ribbons are great" ... posted by andyr on December 09, 2023 at 19:27:06
        
        Already chewing on that!
        :o)
        
        RE: Excellent ... - andyr 23:28:50 12/09/23 (11)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "Ribbons are great" ... posted by Beardy on December 09, 2023 at 23:26:56
        
        What amp are you currently driving your new IIIAs with?
        
        RE: Excellent ... - Beardy 09:02:37 12/10/23 (10)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Excellent ... posted by andyr on December 09, 2023 at 23:28:50
        
        An Emotiva XPA-200.
        
        My plan is to build 2 or 3 Pass F5 clones and biamp/triamp, but I am still chewing on the active crossover. I'd prefer to build rather than buy and this
        https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/diy-biamp-6-24crossover.357657/
        
        is the current favored approach. I am working through exactly how to set this up. I have your MUG tweaks page up in a seperate tab.
        cheers
        
        RE: I would suggest ... - andyr 13:43:56 12/10/23 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Excellent ... posted by Beardy on December 10, 2023 at 09:02:37
        
        You keep your Emotiva XPA for the bass panels ... and build an F5 for the mids+ribbons - or an F5 for the mids plus an F5 for the ribbons (ie. 3-way active).
        
        Even then ... you may find (although the only way to do this is to borrow other amps, to compare) that the F5s aren't really powerful enough. :-((
        
        Why do I say this? Because for about a year (before I then got rid of my Frankenpans) I used 2x 40w-into-4-ohms AKSA ' Alpha Nirvana ' Class A
        amps on my mids & ribbons. Actively driven. (You can find the AKSA AN thread on DIYaudio.)
        
        Hugh Dean - the designer - came over and had a listen; he knows my system well and admitted he was a little 'underwhelmed'. :-(( Which surprised him - as he knew how good the amps should sound.
        
        Yet when he came over subsequently - to listen to the same amps driving my new 'zero baffle' spkrs - he was amazed at how good the amps sounded.
        
        My conclusion was that ... although my ANs were the "4 ohm" version (to optimise their delivery into 4 ohm spkrs rather than 8 ohm - and they are stable into 2 ohms!), the Maggie mids & ribbons really needed more power.
        
        The Pass XO should be ideal. I myself (nearly 30 years ago) used Rod Elliott's P09 L-R XO circuit (modded to provide 'Maggie' slopes) - which worked well.
        
        RE: Excellent ... - Roger Gustavsson 09:59:37 12/10/23 (8)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Excellent ... posted by Beardy on December 10, 2023 at 09:02:37
        
        Pass F5 is only 40 W into 4 Ohm. That is not enough!
        
        RE: Excellent ... - UncleMeat 10:38:16 12/10/23 (7)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Excellent ... posted by Roger Gustavsson on December 10, 2023 at 09:59:37
        
        I tend to agree here, but I'm running a ~50W (@8 Ohm) tube amp right now driving the T-IV's full range and it's sounding good/detailed. If he's going to bi-amp with the Pass amps it -might- be enough if the room is on the smaller side.
        
        I say appx. 50W because the amp is designed for KT-120's and I'm using 6550's instead, so it's output is less than the design spec of 75WPC. As I've stated before, I only need about 15WPC (on 8-Ohm meters) for the room to start feeling 'too loud', however.
        
        RE: Excellent ... - Beardy 14:04:33 12/10/23 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Excellent ... posted by UncleMeat on December 10, 2023 at 10:38:16
        
        Output volume is unarguably related to I^2R. With my DVM I measure typical AC voltages of 5-6 volts at speaker terminals when playing loud. However this meter does not have the temporal response to read accurate values for the peaks, so let me get back to you on that once I have a decent analog AC Voltmeter to play with.
        
        My unfounded belief is that much of this preoccupation with massive power is a reflection of the amplifier architecture required by low impedance speakers. A power supply that can readily provide the current required is feature of a better quality amp. The degradation in sound quality that one might hear from lower power amplifiers may be the impact of shortfalls in the power supply dept.
        
        My expectation is that at `my volumes' there are peaks to perhaps +/-20V, and potentially the impedance of planar may be as low as 2.5 Ohms. This suggests an F5 with a power supply that can give 40V/2.5 Ohms (16A) might do the trick.
        However, my wife tells me that on occasion I am wrong.
        
        RE: Excellent ... - UncleMeat 14:20:05 12/10/23 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Excellent ... posted by Beardy on December 10, 2023 at 14:04:33
        
        Keep in mind that Magnepans are one of the most capable speakers at producing impulse transients like drum/cymbal percussion. These instantaneous changes in voltage approach infinite wattage/current in the instant they are generated.
        
        The signal path from the source through to the amplifier all have to try to reproduce that signal/current demand, of course at lesser extremes with lower voltages. When it gets to the power amp, that current demand goes way up as it tries to drive the low impedance load (relatively) of the speakers.
        
        So it really depends on the amp, and it's current delivery capabilities to be able to keep those notes sharp/accurate. Magnepans are so revealing that deficiencies of the amp can be heard, where they may not be with a standard speaker that's not 'fast' enough.
        
        RE: Excellent ... - Beardy 14:23:23 12/10/23 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Excellent ... posted by UncleMeat on December 10, 2023 at 14:20:05
        
        Understood - that echoes my thoughts.
        
        There is always the turbo...
        :o)
        
        RE: Excellent ... - andyr 16:14:12 12/11/23 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Excellent ... posted by Beardy on December 10, 2023 at 14:23:23
        
        As Dennis said: " So it really depends on the amp, and its current delivery capabilities to be able to keep those notes sharp/accurate ."
        
        Maggies are not the only spkrs that sound better when the amp driving them has bags of current-delivery capability. A mate of mine had some stand-mount B&Ws for many years. He first drove them with a very good-sounding Oz-made 40w tube amp. They sounded very nice - if a little bland ... so one day he decided to try a 150wpc ss amp. That made a huuuge difference ... and he thought he was done! Then, a wicked friend brought over his Magtech to try (500w into 8 ohms, 900w into 4 ohms ... and stable into 2!). Russ then bought a Magtech! :-))
        
        RE: Excellent ... - UncleMeat 00:50:07 12/12/23 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Excellent ... posted by andyr on December 11, 2023 at 16:14:12
        
        Well, with all forms of conversion to mechanical motion from electricity, it's the magnetic field of the permanent magnets interacting with the magnetic field of the voice coil, or in the case of Magnepans, the linear voice wires. The magnetic field of the wire is generated from the current flowing in the wire. Voltage and current are inter-related but the current (flow of electrons) is what generates the magnetic field.
        
        RE: Excellent ... - Roger Gustavsson 01:16:33 12/12/23 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Excellent ... posted by UncleMeat on December 12, 2023 at 00:50:07
        
        Still I=V/R. As the Magnepans driven active is a pure restive load there is not a lot of currrent running through them. The power amps used by myself will not run out of current but of voltage. They can deliver a maximum peak current of 80 A but that will only be the case with some completely stupid speakers which need to go back to the designing board. With the 4 Ohm basses of a Magnepan peak current may be about 10 A (400 W in 4 Ohm).
        
        RE: Excellent ... - UncleMeat 19:07:25 12/12/23 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Excellent ... posted by Roger Gustavsson on December 12, 2023 at 01:16:33
        
        I think it depends on the amp, some amps spec'd at high voltage/wattage will fall short on current delivery under load with dynamics, which again will create higher than 'average' instantaneous current/voltage demands. A lower wattage amp that can deliver high current can be OK, if it can keep up with the instantaneous demand (at lower volumes, of course).
      - Lions and Tigers and Bears! - Beardy 18:40:23 12/05/23 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "the push-pull ribbon of the T1-D" ... posted by andyr on December 05, 2023 at 13:55:17
        
        I'm learning a lot here, but I'm not sure I can gauge the relative benefits of say a T1D over an MGIIIA - one has greater bass extension, `more full sound', but perhaps has a small sweetspot due to beaming of the tweeter, the other has a true ribbon.
        Does the push pull tweeter sound different from the QR tweeter in the 1.6?
        
        Anybody anywhere close to Portland or Seattle who might have time to put up with me for an hour?
        cheers
        
        RE: Lions and Tigers and Bears! - UncleMeat 23:08:29 12/05/23 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Lions and Tigers and Bears! posted by Beardy on December 05, 2023 at 18:40:23
        
        Having had MG-IIB's and now listening to T-IV's, it comes down to what you would prefer in terms of overall sound/stage. The IIIA's are going to have the top-end detail in the highs from the ribbons, where the I-D's will have better low-end and a larger stage due to the 3-panels/side. If you are willing to compromise the shimmer/brightness of the ribbons (or go to the expense of adding them) you would probably prefer I-D's.
        
        I ran the ribbons only on my T-IV's in parallel with Carver ALS to get the top-end notes that the Carver ribbons don't do as well. There is a fair bit of highs that were either dull or not audible with a driver that rolls off at around 10k. It's just a matter of personal preference whether you feel the need to hear the highest highs. When one of my Magnepan ribbons failed, I noticed the loss of those highs when both were turned off, and yes I did want them back/operational again.
        
        RE: "Does the push pull tweeter sound different from the QR tweeter in the 1.6?" ... - andyr 18:54:28 12/05/23 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Lions and Tigers and Bears! posted by Beardy on December 05, 2023 at 18:40:23
        
        I would think probably worse ... as the 1.6QR used the 1/4" wide "quasi ribbon" on the mylar for the tweeter (at least!); the T-1D used the old-style, round-wire.
        
        RE: "Does the push pull tweeter sound different from the QR tweeter in the 1.6?" ... - Beardy 19:25:17 12/05/23 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "Does the push pull tweeter sound different from the QR tweeter in the 1.6?" ... posted by andyr on December 05, 2023 at 18:54:28
        
        Got it - thx
aside from bass extension - Beardy 20:18:38 12/04/23 (0)
nt

Post a Followup:

FAQ

Post a Message!

Forgot Password?

Moniker (Username):
Password (Optional):
	Remember my Moniker & Password (What's this?) Eat Me
E-Mail (Optional):
Subject:

Message:	(Posts are subject to Content Rules)

Optional Link URL:
Optional Link Title:
Optional Image URL:
Upload Image:
E-mail Replies:	Automagically notify you when someone responds.

To view your new posting or follow-up, click on the RELOAD or REFRESH button on your browser.

This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:

Sonic Craft