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RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ?

24.16.182.7

In Reply to: RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? posted by trioderob on November 10, 2021 at 21:15:38

No stored woofer energy? :) Think again.

Not only is that physically impossible, but Magnepan's exhibit more stored energy effects than most other speakers.....relatively speaking.
Excite a Magnepan speaker with an impulse, look at the ringing afterward, and you will understand.

Dave.

Follow Ups:

RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? - pictureguy 18:41:33 11/13/21 (2)
Not 'NO' stored energy. Just very little....
Too much is never enough
- RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? - Davey 18:51:11 11/13/21 (1)
  The OP said "no stored woofer energy." :)
  
  But, I disagree that it's "very little." As I suggested earlier.....excite the woofer with an impulse and monitor via oscilloscope and close microphone. If you call that "very little stored energy" then I think you need to re-adjust your reference. :)
  The reason these speakers have the nickname "drum-skins" is because they are. :)
  
  Dave.
  - RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? - pictureguy 20:56:17 11/13/21 (0)
    maggies are no more than what......2% or 3% efficient?
    
    To go from electricity to sound and return you are going to get only a tiny return.
    
    Mylar is Low Stretch. No edge suspension like a conventional woofer. I suspect a conventionaal
    
    Acoustic Suspension speaker stores far more energy....an order of magnitude? = 10x?
    
    Can you assign some number rather than the qualitative 'very little'?
    
    So while I think 'zero storage' is off the table, I'd say 'not much' might be OK.
    
    One other factor? How much Damping Factor do Maggies benefit from? I see many users with
    
    low DF Tube gear. Electrically, I don't know if Maggies benefit from a high DF.....
    
    As for viewing on a scope? What voltage range? How large an input TO the panel? I'd love to
    
    attend and WATCH this tested. Cool idea.
    Too much is never enough
    - https://www.grafixplastics.com/grafix-plastics/plastic-film- (Open in New Window)
RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? - josh358 13:39:38 11/11/21 (5)
Yep, they're designed to ring. That's how they do the acoustic dipole equalization.
- RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? - Davey 14:06:06 11/11/21 (4)
  No Josh, I'm talking about the energy storage of the transducer unit by itself....irregardless of the baffling configuration and how the dipole cancellation is handled. The ringing would exist in any case.
  Dave.
  
  Edits: 11/11/21
  - RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? - josh358 16:13:04 11/13/21 (3)
    I'm talking about the transducer's energy storage as well.
    
    The ringing of the resonant sections is used for acoustic equalization.
    
    The drivers are designed to ring as much as possible.
    - RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? - Davey 18:35:40 11/13/21 (2)
      Josh,
      
      I think we're in a chicken-or-the-egg discussion here. I know you know how this works, but your description might be confusing for some inmates, regarding the "ringing."
      
      Do you design the transducer for the inherent equalization the baffle provides? Or the other way around? :)
      
      Dave.
      - RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? - josh358 15:14:52 11/18/21 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? posted by Davey on November 13, 2021 at 18:35:40
        
        Have you ever noticed that when you tap the resonant sections they play a musical scale?
        
        That, I assume, is to prevent pitch shift. Which raises two other questions.
        
        If the diaphragm tension changes over the years, does that put the speaker out of tune?
        
        And if you play something a bit off key, do the resonant sections pitch shift it back into key like Autotune? :-)
        
        RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? - Davey 17:38:53 11/19/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? posted by josh358 on November 18, 2021 at 15:14:52
        
        My speakers have the E A D G B E tuning. I guess I will need to attach my guitar tuner and see if they've adopted an alternate tuning.
        
        Dave.
RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? - trioderob 09:26:10 11/11/21 (9)
ok stored energy ....... but no boxes resonances and still ultra fast
would like to try a bass ALE compression driver tho

Edits: 11/11/21
- RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? - Davey 10:10:23 11/11/21 (8)
  It's a misconception that Magnepans have powerful motor structures with high "speed", low resonances, low stored energy, etc, etc. Relative to many conventional speakers, they pale in comparison, in those aspects.
  
  Now, that's not to say they don't bring other assets to the table. Speaker transducers are all about trade-off's.
  
  That said, if you want to feel some lightning fast bass that will literally shake your guts during the experience, there are other speakers (that are not Maggie/planars) that will do it much better.
  
  Dave.
  - RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? - trioderob 11:59:27 11/11/21 (7)
    much faster bass than maggies ?
    I am all ears
    ( I am not talking about gut jarring - I have heard all manner of K-horn - jbl and altec )
    
    Edits: 11/11/21
    - RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? - josh358 13:33:56 11/11/21 (0)
      Well, "fast" bass is a bit of a misnomer. No bass is fast. It's bass -- the driver moves slowly.
      
      Often, "slow" bass is caused by a mismatch between the woofer and the midrange and tweeter. See the article I've linked to.
      
      Magnepan goes out of their way to extend the HF response of their woofer panels so that they meld in the crossover region.
      
      Another issue is that dipole bass triggers fewer room modes than monopole bass. This means smoother response in real world rooms. You can do the same thing with sealed subs, but you need four of them to do it.
      
      http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/maxdb/maxdb061999.htm (Open in New Window)
    - RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? - Davey 12:45:22 11/11/21 (5)
      Open-baffle dipole bass systems using conventional drivers.
      Quite a few different examples in usage nowadays.
      My own system uses a variation of the Linkwitz Phoenix design.
      You won't find "fast" bass response like this from any Magnepan. :)
      Dave.
      
      Edits: 11/11/21
      - 30.7FC - emailtim 12:18:15 11/13/21 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? posted by Davey on November 11, 2021 at 12:45:22
        
        So the 30.7FC with the conventional driver bass could potentially have faster bass ?
        
        RE: 30.7FC - Davey 14:05:34 11/13/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: 30.7FC posted by emailtim on November 13, 2021 at 12:18:15
        
        I would certainly think so.
        
        Dave.
      - RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? - trioderob 13:51:15 11/11/21 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? posted by Davey on November 11, 2021 at 12:45:22
        
        open baffles have their own set of problems
        
        RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? - Davey 13:59:45 11/11/21 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? posted by trioderob on November 11, 2021 at 13:51:15
        
        Yeah, Magnepans are open-baffles also. :)
        As I said above, all speaker transducers have trade-offs....of one form or another.
        
        I'm speaking from long experience here, as I've had both Magnepans and Linkwitz-style woofer schemes in my listening room.
        
        Dave.
        
        RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? - trioderob 18:01:07 11/11/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? posted by Davey on November 11, 2021 at 13:59:45
        
        that Linkwitz guy sure was good with the number figuring

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