• RE: I think you need to... - Peter Gunn 19:59:56 01/19/11 (2)
  In Reply to: RE: I think you need to... posted by mdl on January 19, 2011 at 15:48:56

  As a hockey player I have always hated ice fishermen. I waited all year as a kid for ponds to freeze only to fall and nearly kill myself tripping over some hole cut in the ice I didn't see. :^ )
  
  I think everyone entirely missed my point however. I have no problem with their business model. How many times must I say that? No problem.
  
  My anger rose over what I read as a very real slight against anything we have done to "tweak" their product.
  
  Fact - we ALL know the changes we make are real and positive. So for him to say it's all some blurry fantasy we're trying to convince ourselves of, and being a "reputable company" they can't put stock in tweak-ism is incredibly insulting.
  
  I get that most of what we do is not fiscally practical for them, and have always said so. He did not need to defend that they don't do any of it and I am not upset that they don't do what we do.
  
  I'm upset that he just essentially said what we do is a joke, but if we "have fun" doing it they don't care. I don't think what we've accomplished here is a joke, and in fact THEY should be proud of what we've done.
  
  There is an interesting parallel to all this. Sierra made a computer game called Red Baron, which was a WWI flight sim. Being a WWI aviation afficionado I was very much into it. The original was bad but it got updated as RB II which was a real game (and there was finally a RB IIID upgrade)
  
  WWI aviation nuts are like maggie speaker nuts. People took that game system and "tweaked" it beyond imagining, making hundreds of patches that introduced real sounds, more lifelike aircraft paintings as well as more of them until they had included every plane that ever flew, improved terrain graphics, missions etc... and they invented a campaign manager to utilize it all. And like here they gave it away for free.
  
  If you knew the genre, it was amazing. Once I'd installed it all I was flying a patrol and almost fell off the chair when Willy Coppens flew by me in his Nieuport. Now, straights would never notice that, but being a student of the period I knew him and his plane and it was rendered so well I recognized it instantly. It was actually an amazing experience. (Coppens was Belgiums leading ace of the war, and he also shot down more balloons than anyone else in the war which in itself was a feat becausethey are the most dangerous of all targets being low to the ground and surrounded by guns)
  
  These people petitoned Sierra to take their work and release it as a fully functioning game, and many were willing to give their hard labor for free to make it happen. Sierra declined stating there just was not enough of a market of WWI nuts to make it viable. And so it goes...
  
  But at least Sierra had the decency to highly commend the work everyone had done.
  
  So I get it's not possible or practical, but a nod to what we've accomplished IMHO would have been the right thing to do.
  

  
  It's all about the music...
  
  

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  • RE: I think you need to... - josh358 16:44:28 01/20/11 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: I think you need to... posted by Peter Gunn on January 19, 2011 at 19:59:56

    > Fact - we ALL know the changes we make are real and positive. So for him to say it's all some blurry fantasy we're trying to convince ourselves of, and being a "reputable company" they can't put stock in tweak-ism is incredibly insulting.
    
    Honestly, I don't think that's what he said. In fact, I think he's expressed himself on the topic before, saying that they can't incorporate things that *only a few people can hear* or something to that effect. That I think was his goal in mentioning the Russian woman. Listening panel tests tend to gloss over small differences, and focus a manufacturers' efforts on large ones. As such, they're a good tool for someone who's selling a product to a mass market. They also filter out imaginary differences, and it seems to me quite likely that he thinks some of the differences here could fall under that rubric. I certainly do. But believing that doesn't mean that he considers all the differences here imaginary or inconsequential, again, any more than I do. They just may not offer the kind of bang for the buck that they're after. Or like your woodworking or Grant's stands, they may not be feasible at the price point for which they're aiming. We know they make this kind of call, like any manufacturer, since Jim Winey said that metal frames would be better than MDF, but that they're too heavy to ship.
    

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  • Ice and bias... - mdl 20:25:05 01/19/11 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: I think you need to... posted by Peter Gunn on January 19, 2011 at 19:59:56

    
    I grew up in a province with 100,000 lakes... we had enough room for ice fishing and hockey :-) I won't even get into the superiority of fishing in Canada :-)
    
    I remember when I first started tweaking my system and would try things. It took me awhile to understand whether something was a change, or a change for the better. I have a healthy amount of distrust for a lot of tweaks, partly because I have seen a lot of scams, and partly becuase I am a scientist. I read Wendell's statement on tweaks as an attempt to be entirely non-judgemental, whether they think things work or they do not. I see no arrogance here. I see a manufacturer who has a specific process (one I agree with) attempting to be as hands off as possible and let the community enjoy itself.
    
    As for your software example, I do a lot of community source work and think it is a beautiful thing. It is a different thing for me as you are dealing with strongly verifiable models, though certainly there is a lot in common with people who do things out of pride and enjoyment.
    

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