• RE: let's not forget electrostatics..... - Adriel 09:46:42 09/23/10 (17)
  In Reply to: RE: let's not forget electrostatics..... posted by Frank I on September 23, 2010 at 05:12:08

  Which thread on headfi? The "Audeze LCD-2 appreciation thread"?

  I have the Stax basic system. While it has a smooth midrange, the highs have a metallic zing that is unnatural, and makes any type of music unlistenable (radio pop, jazz, acoustic, rock, electronica). Whoever made this headphone was deaf, over 40, whatever. I also cannot stand the fake earpad material, the naugahyde/PU is plastic and non-breathable and sticky on the face. But there are many different Stax, I read some are not as bright.

  The Audeze, I have read sound "natural" and have good "bass", but what about the high frequencies? Bright, rolled off, grainy, what? Is it ear piercing on a female vocal, saxophone, or violin?
  

  ---

  Edits: 09/23/10   09/23/10   09/23/10   09/23/10   09/23/10

  • RE: let's not forget electrostatics..... - Frank I 12:08:22 09/23/10 (16)
    In Reply to: RE: let's not forget electrostatics..... posted by Adriel on September 23, 2010 at 09:46:42

    The impression are on the Local Meet page of all we heard that day, The Audeze LCD2 page will tell you all. I will say this as I have been listening for a week now with about 10-12 hrs a day. They are really the most unbelievable headphones I ever heard with vocals I have never experienced in a headphone. Deep tight extended bass better than other and pristine crystal non piercing highs . Really a new benchmark for all others to follow. Neutral balanced and really have spent no time since they are in house with my other headphones,the waiting period for these hand made gems is 2 months but well worth the price of admission.
    

    ---

    • RE: let's not forget electrostatics..... - Davy 16:56:10 09/24/10 (15)
      In Reply to: RE: let's not forget electrostatics..... posted by Frank I on September 23, 2010 at 12:08:22

      I have to agree with you Frank, - I've tried many stax phones and in my opinion they are not a good long term headphone at all. They can sometime be quite good with certain recordings but they are not all rounders, (- I’ve owned all these models:- 404, NB Lambda Lambda Pro, Lambda Sig, Lambda Nova Sig, NB Gamma, Gamma Pro, NB SRX III, SRX III Pro, NB SR5, SR5 Pro, NB Sigma, Sigma Pro, Sigma 404, and O2.) Most of them apart from the Sigmas and O2 are too bright, thin, sharp and synthetic sounding, and I was not impressed with the O2 either – I had one with a SRM717, - it was too dark and very uninvolving sounding. I have heard it can liven up with $$$$$ amps like the BHSE but that’s very expensive and I still have my doubts. One I would like to try and haven’t yet is the original Omega. The Sigma Pro had serious flaws in terms of coloration and bass extension but I was one of the best models in my opinion as it had a speaker like soundstage. It is not bright and sharp sounding like many of the other models.
      
      I’ve heard the LCD2 Orthodynamic on several occasion, - my friend Kabeer has a pair, - they are a superb sounding headphones and much better allrounders than the Stax phones and immeasurably better value, - there have the most linear response of any transducer available from 20hz to 1Khz and above that in the treble they are very unpeaky and natural sounding, - none of the sharpness the Stax have, and none of the grain a lot of dynamic headphones have. After being used to ribbon tweeter shod Maggies I would say they don't extend quite as far, but thats nitpicking really.
      The LCD2s are also neutral unlike any of the Stax headphones I have heard. Many other Orthodynamics are very good too with modification, - my Yamaha YH100 is a killer with some mods.
      
      Orthos are a great compromise between electrostatic and dynamic headphones, - they have a much fuller sound and better bass than stats and at the sane time have less distortion and more refined sound than dynamic headphones, - very similar to way isodynamic speakers like Maggies are a great compromise between electrostatic and dynamic speakers.
      
      Another bonus is you also don’t need a killer expensive headphone amp to drive a headphone like the LCD2s, - they have enough sensitivity to even run from an Ipod directly but to get very good sound for reasonable money you can run them from a speaker amps speaker terminals as well, - with or without resistor attenuation. Of course if you want to spend a lot then a lot of specail high powered headphone amps are out there that with drive put orthos and dynamic headphones.
      
      I still think the name “orthodynamic” is a very unfortunate name for these type of headphones, - I'm sure its puts people off (including myself until last year), - I didn’t realize these were the headphone equivalent of Maggies!, - why were they not named Magnetic planar headphones of Magentoplanar headphones or something like that?!
      
      One other headphone I would be interested in trying is the dynamic Sennheiser HD800 which is suposed to have a neutral balance as well, but perhpas a brighter sound than the LCD2 and a bigger soundstage (that might be unnautrally big on the soundstage front hough!), - not tried it yet but I intend to, will sell on if its no good. From what I have read though the LCD2 is better though. Did you hear the HD800?
      Cheers,
      Colin
      

      ---

      • AUDEZE - triamp 03:34:42 09/25/10 (14)
        In Reply to: RE: let's not forget electrostatics..... posted by Davy on September 24, 2010 at 16:56:10

        I have triamped (ala' DEQX) 3.6's (well triamped plus subs below 55 Hz...)

        I am on the Audeze waitlist, supposed to ship my LCD2's in early October....
        I am warming up my Beta 22, my Bottlehead Crack and Bijou amps now!

        I also have QUAD ESL 57's. They sound great, and have bass (in my small room they do-) but I have never heard Stax phones that had what I would call GREAT bass like my Sennheiser HD800's do or like the Audeze are reputed to have. And I've listend to Stax 007 on Uber amps like the Blue Hawaii etc.

        The other thing is, the diaphragms in the Stax phones I've listened to crackle when you adjust the earcups - the changes in air pressure as you fiddle with the cans, sealing and unselaing them from your ears seems to cause the diaphragms (or dust covers?) to be pumped about. This crackling stops if you quit messing with the phones and just leave them sit on your head, but I still don't like this effect.

        I also don't like the cost of the top end Stax and their associated electronics.

        In the early 1970's I had Koss ESP 9's, and at the time they were about the best there was. I liked them. But I would like to now be able to compare them to my HD800's. I don't recall the ESP-9's having bass like the HD800's, but of course "sonic memory" is hideously unreliable, so I think it would be fun to be able to compare them now, side-by-side.
        

        ---

        Edits: 09/25/10   09/25/10

        • RE: AUDEZE - Frank I 17:09:40 09/25/10 (5)
          In Reply to: RE: AUDEZE posted by triamp on September 25, 2010 at 03:34:42

          The LCd2 has the best bass and vocals I ever heard in any headphone. I hear the Orpheus and the Stax O2. I liked the Orpheus and did not care for the O2 at all they were both bass light the Stax more so. LCD2 is better in every way and still cant believe how good they are.
          

          ---

          • RE: AUDEZE - Davy 22:06:39 09/25/10 (4)
            In Reply to: RE: AUDEZE posted by Frank I on September 25, 2010 at 17:09:40

            I'd really like to hear the HE90 Orpheus. But they are so pricey and from what I have read they are not that amazing and not relaly worth the money, though they are probabyl better than the Stax O2.
            The LCD2 however is likely to be better sounding than either and clearly much better value as its so much cheaper. Just curious, - have you heard the Yamaha YH100 (modified) and YH1000? Or any other good sounding Orthos?
            Cheers,
            Colin
            
            

            ---

            • RE: AUDEZE - Frank I 09:03:41 09/26/10 (3)
              In Reply to: RE: AUDEZE posted by Davy on September 25, 2010 at 22:06:39

              I have not heard the Yamaha. The Audeze I prefer over the Orpheus because the bass is much better and deeper and more extended. The Audeze is best cans overall I have heard to date. Roomer has it Sennheiser is up to something with a orthodynamic again. It will be curious to see what CES brings but me I may be done as this can gives me everything and then some
              

              ---

              • RE: AUDEZE - Davy 09:31:49 09/26/10 (2)
                In Reply to: RE: AUDEZE posted by Frank I on September 26, 2010 at 09:03:41

                Good point Frank, - with the LCD2 you might as well just stop there for spending more money and bother looking around for other phones, - its such a good allroudner. And Like I say you can even use it with cheap(ish) amplification and get good results, - even a small good sounding cheap integrated speaker amp will sound pretty good with it. Leaving you time to upgrade to a more exotic pricey suitably high powered headphone amp in the future.
                Your comments on the Orpheus make me inclined not to seek it out now, - this is the second time I've heard someone say the bass is lacking/not adequate, - so there is no point, - the LCD2 is a much better buy for so much less money.
                The only other production headphone around right now I would consider getting is the HD800, - it does also seem like pretty good value too (especailly second hand), - it obviously a neutral type headphone like the LCD2 but got a slightly different sounding balance ( brighter), - but I think at when you look at the cost of pricey stats etc, its still good value. A friend of mine described the HD800 as sounding like an HE60 with bass, - which sounds intriguing, - the HE60 had a pure, ungrainy sound but was really lacking in bass. The HE60 was a bit too bright for me though, - I might not be able to take the HD800 if it is like that. Of course the HD800 really needs a bit of $$$$ amp though, - the LCD2 is easier to drive so cheaper to use on that front.
                
                I've not heard my friends rare YH1000 yet but I intend to very soon. Its apparently got more midrange magic than the LCD2, - I've heard another owner say the only other headphone that has such nice mids as the YH1000 was the very pricey bass light Sony R10.
                My friend Kabeer likes both the LCD2 and YH1000, - the LCD2 is the best allrounder in all departments, - extension at both end, bass quality all around, - transients, balance, soundstage etc, - but the YH1000 apparently has a lot going for it as well as the mids are a bit more special.
                The less rare (but still not that common) Yamaha YH100 is stonking good if you modify it (which is very easy). The problem is they are a little sought after but even with the current prices (which are rising all the time) they are still a bargain right now IMO if you know how to modify it.
                I would like to hear the Thunderpants too, - apparently that is not as linear sounding/as technically accurate as the LCD2 but is another Ortho that is a very good all rounder and does most things very well, and it also has great bass (if like I say, its not quite as even throughout the range as the LCD2).
                
                Have you heard the HD800 or the TP?
                
                All the best,
                Colin
                Cheers,
                Colin
                
                

                ---

                • RE: AUDEZE - Frank I 07:20:21 09/27/10 (1)
                  In Reply to: RE: AUDEZE posted by Davy on September 26, 2010 at 09:31:49

                  The HD800 is bass light IMO and it has a spike in the treble which can be both bright and harsh with some instruments. The T1 I own also is so much better and balanced. Soun stage is not a big bit it is deep and wide and has good bass and I like it better than the HD800, The LCD2 has the best female vocals but I also love the T1 and my D7000 is a great can that makes my foot tap and sounds like a full range speaker. I am done. The Decware CSP-2 tube SET plays both the LCD2 and use a SS Matrix on the D7000
                  

                  ---

                  • RE: AUDEZE - Davy 10:15:31 09/27/10 (0)
                    In Reply to: RE: AUDEZE posted by Frank I on September 27, 2010 at 07:20:21

                    Hi Frank,
                    Yes I've heard a lot of people mention the brightness issue/treble spike issue with the HD800. And I've heard too that while the bass is quite textured it might lack some extension. Sounds like those issues could be a problem for me. I've not heard the T1 either but I understand that's a great alternative and has a very nice sound overall and is still reasonably neutral, just a bit less soundstage than the HD800 like you mention. I read that the D700 is less neutral than the others with more bass but I can see why having that type of balance could be more fun sounding with some material. I guess the D7000 must be great with movies because of the bass capabilities.
                    But it seems the LCD2 is the real killer headphone overall, - neutral balance, great bass extension and no spike in the treble, and of course no cone distortion. Great compromise between a dynamic and a stat, - same deal as Maggies in the speaker world.

                    Cheers,
                    Colin
                    

                    ---

                    Edits: 09/27/10
        • RE: AUDEZE - Davy 11:30:46 09/25/10 (3)
          In Reply to: RE: AUDEZE posted by triamp on September 25, 2010 at 03:34:42

          I agree with you on the Stax phones, - the bass is a problem compared to the better dynamic phones I have tried. I’ve also owned the Sennhesier HE60 and that had a big bass problem too, - just too thin sounding. It was a bit purer sounding than the Stax phones but I could not live with it either. It was also too bright as well. I’ve not heard the ESP9 but I’ve heard a friends newer Koss ESP950 as well and thought that one was terrible, - very cheap construction and very cheap sound quality. I don’t understand why its popular, - perhaps there is a lot of manufacturer variation. I preferred all the Stax phones to it by quite a bit, I thought it was particularly poor.
          I heard the Quad 57s once and they are very good in some respects but they have several major issues for me. The biggest problem is the dispersion for me, - you need to keep you head locked in a particular position and can’t listen off axis at all. The next problem is the bandwidth limitation, particularly at the top, which I find is quite obvious. The bass is less of a problem, - you can get used to that, but I would find that something slightly missing at the top quite annoying with time I think. I found they were good with simple music but not so good with more demanding complex dynamic music.
          And the is of course issue of driving them too loud and arcing them, which limits things of course.
          So whilst a Maggie might not be able to quite do some of the things a 57 can do it’s a far better allrounder in my opinion, - plays much louder without the worries about damage, miles better dispersion, and much better frequency extension and better dynamics and much better with a wider range of material. And still has the advantage of being a planar so there's not the cone distortion you get with dynamic speakers.
          So yeah same for Orthodynamic headphone, - I feel they are the best allrounders out there.
          
          Many Stax phones have that “fart” you describe, - it originates from the diaphragm when the phone is charged up. The O2 is particularly bad for that and I agree its another annoying problem. I agree with you are about the price of the associated electronics needed for the Stax stuff (particular the O2) - it’s a waste of money when the end result has cost you a lot more than a better sounding LCD2 does.
          Your comments about the HD800 make me want to try it, - I’ve heard it is very good as well, - slightly brighter than the LCD2 though.
          
          Cheers,
          Colin
          
          

          ---

          • HD 800 - triamp 14:18:35 09/25/10 (0)
            In Reply to: RE: AUDEZE posted by Davy on September 25, 2010 at 11:30:46

            In some ways the HD800 is almost TOO bright. Any harshness in amplification stands out like a sore thumb, so they are picky about which amp to use them with. And, for some reason, they don't seem to sound their best on the OTL tube designs I've tried them on. A really good class-A, discrete solid state amp with MOSFET output stage like the Beta 22 seems to be about the best amp to use, at least IMHO.
            
            From what I've read, the Audeze LCD-2 planar headphones are not as "picky" as regards amplification. I can't wait to get mine.
            
            By the way, I heard someplace that someone was going to introduce "true ribbon" headphones at some point. RAAL was saying something about this in 2007 or so, as I recall. That would be interesting.
            

            ---
          • RE: AUDEZE - triamp 14:02:51 09/25/10 (1)
            In Reply to: RE: AUDEZE posted by Davy on September 25, 2010 at 11:30:46

            In my setup, there is somehting wonderful about the bass of my ESL-57's. The MG 3.6's of course can play much louder, and go deeper. But there is a certain tautness that the ESL 57's have in spades that the MG 3.6's approach but do not quite equal. The MG 3.6's bass is of course more "planar" than any cone speaker, but the ESL 57 bass in my setup seems even "more planar" if you will. I think this is a result of room and placement to a fair degree, my ESL 57 setup is blessed with a room that is very favorable to their low end. And in this small room, the ESL 57 do play pretty loud, but of course not at the levels that the MG 3.6 can attain. I have diode clamp boards, so I do not worry about arcing the ESLs.
            
            I think the ESL 57 midrange is also a tad cleaner than the sound I get out of my MG 3.6's, though not by much.
            
            The highs of the ESL 57 are good, but the MG 3.6's really best them by a wide margin. Those ribbons in the 3.6's really sound fantastic. The highs in the ESL-57's are accurate and extended, but have a certain "dryness" as compared to the MG 3.6 sound. There's just more sheen to brushed cymbals with the MG 3.6. Tube amps sound a little "sweeter" on the ESL-57's ( with a loss in bass control) but even with Class A tube amplification on the ESLs, the MG 3.6 high end still sounds more natural to me.
            
            Imaging in the ESL 57's is good, with precision and depth. But the MG 3.6 really opens up a palpable sense of space that the ESL-57's merely sketch.
            

            ---

            • RE: AUDEZE - Davy 18:55:56 09/25/10 (0)
              In Reply to: RE: AUDEZE posted by triamp on September 25, 2010 at 14:02:51

              Hi there,
              Yes I remember from hearing the 57s myself that the bass is nice and tight, and pretty impressive in that respect. though it does not extend that deep, but like I say that does not bother me too much as I can get used to it. I guess if you have a small room the 57 is likely to be much more suited to it than the 3.6R. I read before the Maggies need at least 300 sq foot to perform properly. I don't have enough space for my Maggies either! I plan (or maybe should I say "dream"!) of moving to a place with a huge listening room in the future.
              I guess that with reframing Maggies, and making them much more rigid, like some people do, - the bass must get a lot tighter. They are pretty flexy in stock form.
              I had a pair of Apogee Stages for a while and they had a tight bass as their construction was very rigid but the treble was also not to my liking compared to the Maggies ribbon, - with the Stages the treble had a slightly annoying tizzy/metallic sound. I have heard this is partly due to the crossover design though and can be improved with crossover upgrades. So yeah I would agree and say the treble on the ribbon tweeter shod Maggies I have heard sounds more natural than the 57s and the Stages.
              
              I am somebody who usually doesn't mind a bit of brightness with headphones, - but having not heard the HD800 its hard to say if I could take the treble or not. I read too that there is unfortunately some manufacturing variation with the HD800s, - some examples sound brighter than others and there is some correlation to this from the frequency response graphs of a particular phone. Though unfortunately the phones do not come with the graph, - you have to register it to get the graph from Sennheiser which is annoying. I guess if you you know what to look for in a graph though, buying a used one with a FR graph might allow you to pick a less bright example.
              
              When you get the LCD2 let me know your take on LCD2 vs HD800.
              
              Cheers,
              Colin
              
              

              ---
        • RE: AUDEZE - Travis 08:01:50 09/25/10 (3)
          In Reply to: RE: AUDEZE posted by triamp on September 25, 2010 at 03:34:42

          It certainly would be fun to listen to an ESP-9, for about a minute. They were very heavy and my ears became very sweaty in almost no time at all. I don't have that many fond memories of it.
          
          
          "If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
          
          

          ---

          • RE: AUDEZE - triamp 14:05:05 09/25/10 (0)
            In Reply to: RE: AUDEZE posted by Travis on September 25, 2010 at 08:01:50

            Yeah I remember the ESP-9s were very "hard" feeling on the ears. Those fluid-filled vinyl ear cushions were not really very "cushiony." And they were heavy cans.
            

            ---
          • RE: AUDEZE - roger.barbara@bredband.net 11:08:11 09/25/10 (1)
            In Reply to: RE: AUDEZE posted by Travis on September 25, 2010 at 08:01:50

            I have the Yamaha HP-1 since 35 years, a planar headphone. They sound warmer than the Stax I have heard but some sparkle is missing. They are a bit fatiguing, hard to pin-point. Comfort is good. http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=Yamaha_HP-1
            
            I was interested in the PMB/MB Quart headphones but never got a chance to listen to them. http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=PMB
            
            Koss ESP-950 is another interesting headphone but far to exspensive. http://www.koss.com/koss/kossweb.nsf/p?openform&pc^es^ESP950
            
            Roger Gustavsson
            
            

            ---

            • RE: AUDEZE - Davy 21:59:15 09/25/10 (0)
              In Reply to: RE: AUDEZE posted by roger.barbara@bredband.net on September 25, 2010 at 11:08:11

              Hi Roger,
              The ESP950 is not good at all in my opinion, - in fact its a joke for the money. Stay away from it. The YH1 however is a great headphone for cheap IMO money provided its had some damping added, - in stock form it suffers from being underdamped and the transients are very compromised and its sounds lacking in the treble like you describe, but with a touch of damping added to ones tastes its a great all rounder, - transients and treble are both improved. So I'm not sure if you modified yours but if not perhaps you should try. The same goes for the Yamaha YH100, , - in stock form its very underdamped and not great sounding at all,- but with modification its real magic, and its miles ahead of any YH1 with some suitable damping scheme. It has superb bass. I also found it more musical than the LCD2 even. Though its not technically quite as good all arounder. A friend of mine has a pair of the rare Yamaha YH1000s, - will be hearing them soon. Apparently they have real midrange magic, but again are not as good all around as the LCD2s, - but this guys loves them Yh1000 because of the midrange.
              
              Cheers,
              Colin
              
              

              ---

Post a Followup:

This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:

---

[ Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]

---

[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]

---