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In Reply to: RE: Nope wealthy people get the most benefit posted by Goober58 on March 15, 2021 at 13:28:55
You missed the important point. You can argue that laws are passed which benefit some people more than others. That's called "politics". But, when it comes to the fundamental duties of the government, we all benefit equally. So, we should all pay equally. This isn't difficult to understand, but it does require thinking outside of the usual paradigm.
Take the Federal budget, divide it by the number of people in the U.S. and territories, and everyone pays their "fair share". Easy-peasy. Done.
****
"So it is written, so it shall be."
Follow Ups:
are whiners who want everyone else to foot the bills. ;)For anyone actually interested in reality...
Edits: 03/16/21
About 60% or higher from about 1934 to 1983 or so. A progressive income tax is a fulcrum on which any semi decent modern society rests (IMHO). It exist and has existed in the most successful economies on the planet.Elementary. Please take note of when the Great Depression and the Great Recession happened.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
No surprise that's what you find significant!
What's really more important than detached bracket values is the total tax revenue generated. Note the greatest rise occurred following the lowering of the marginal bracket rate!
In 1983 when the highest bracket was 50%, total revenue was $601B. By 1990, when the rate was at its lowest , revenues almost doubled to $1.03T.
The data can be found here .
U.S. Tax Revenue by Year
Here's a record of income for each fiscal year since 1789. Tax receipts fell off during the recession but started setting new records by FY 2013.6
Fiscal Year Revenue
FY 2021 $3.86 (estimated)
FY 2020 $3.71 trillion (estimated)
FY 2019 $3.46 trillion (actual)
FY 2018 $3.33 trillion
FY 2017 $3.32 trillion
FY 2016 $3.27 trillion
FY 2015 $3.25 trillion
FY 2014 $3.02 trillion
FY 2013 $2.77 trillion
FY 2012 $2.45 trillion
FY 2011 $2.30 trillion
FY 2010 $2.16 trillion
FY 2009 $2.10 trillion
FY 2008 $2.52 trillion
FY 2007 $2.57 trillion
FY 2006 $2.41 trillion
FY 2005 $2.15 trillion
FY 2004 $1.88 trillion
FY 2003 $1.78 trillion
FY 2002 $1.85 trillion
FY 2001 $1.99 trillion
FY 2000 $2.03 trillion
FY 1999 $1.82 trillion
FY 1998 $1.72 trillion
FY 1997 $1.58 trillion
FY 1996 $1.45 trillion
FY 1995 $1.35 trillion
FY 1994 $1.26 trillion
FY 1993 $1.15 trillion
FY 1992 $1.09 trillion
FY 1991 $1.05 trillion
FY 1990 $1.03 trillion
FY 1989 $991 billion
FY1988 $909 billion
FY 1987 $854 billion
FY 1986 $769 billion
FY 1985 $734 billion
FY 1984 $666 billion
FY 1983 $601 billion
FY 1982 $618 billion
FY 1981 $599 billion
FY 1980 $517 billion
FY 1979 $463 billion
FY 1978 $399 billion
FY 1977 $356 billion
FY 1976 $298 billion
FY 1975 $279 billion
FY 1974 $263 billion
FY 1973 $231 billion
FY 1972 $207 billion
FY 1971 $187 billion
FY 1970 $193 billion
FY 1969 $187 billion
FY 1968 $153 billion
FY 1967 $149 billion
FY 1966 $131 billion
FY 1965 $117 billion
FY 1964 $113 billion
FY 1963 $107 billion
FY 1962 $100 billion
FY 1961 $94 billion
FY 1960 $93 billion
US Government total revenues in 1930 with a highest income tax rate of about 25%- 2951.4. US Government total revenues in 1940 with a highest income tax rate of near or at 80% 6222.2. Over double with a tripling of the income tax rate.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
I don't know what you guys are arguing about. According to the Joe himself, he's been in Congress for 140 years. Who am I to doubt him?
****
"So it is written, so it shall be."
What percentage of government revenue comes from taxes?
50 percent
Federal Budget. What are the sources of revenue for the federal government? About 50 percent of federal revenue comes from individual income taxes, 7 percent from corporate income taxes, and another 36 percent from payroll taxes that fund social insurance programs (figure 1). The rest comes from a mix of sources.
Tax Policy Center, "What are the sources of revenue for the ...https://www.taxpolicycenter.org › briefing-book › what...
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Short attention span added to you list of maladies?
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Why did it take a week for you to initially respond? ;)
This conversation was over long ago.
Trump: I Believe In Raising Taxes on the Wealthy, "Including Myself"
Posted By Tim Hains
On Date April 21, 2016 on video
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Is it your contention that there is a 1 to 1 correlation and causality between lower and lowering top marginal Federal tax rates on the filthy rich and an increase in Federal coffers?
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Edits: 03/29/21
believe higher marginal rates produce any more revenue. ;)
I just provided the data where that happens to have been the trend for the past several decades save black swan events like 2001, 2008 and last year.
All "soak the rich" plans ultimately fail due to not thinking through what will actually occur. The wealthy and their tax accountants are not fools. The Luxury Tax fiasco in the 80s is a perfect example. It just put blue collar workers out of jobs.
If you look at the period of time of your data between 1960 and 1983 when the highest marginal income tax rate was at 60% or greater you can see that the Federal income in 1960 was 93 billion and in 601 billion in 1983. A 6.6 fold increase in Federal income in that period. Your inference is way too simplistic. One, IMHO, must look at the whole situation, inflation,spending policy,corporate tax policy,loophole policy, the behavior of the rich and filthy rich. How they invest and spend.Interest rates. What is the overall effect on the quality of life of the society in general. And GDP growth of course. You might find the below article of interest. Here is an excerpt.
"U.S. economic growth has been strongest when our taxes have been high. During World War II, then under Truman, Eisenhower, and Kennedy, our upper marginal tax rates were between 88%-92%. Read those numbers again. They are astonishingly high. Those were our strongest growth years." 2009
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
A 6.6 fold increase in Federal income in that period.
More than half of which was due to inflation. Sorry, your understanding of relevant math remains lacking.
The economic boom following World War II has nothing to do with marginal tax rates. The Wizard of Oz was popular then, too. Prosperity must be responsible by that factor. ;)
Keep up the good work whining about *the rich*!
... and seem to have at least somewhat of a conscience. I know it's a big scary word but you might look it up in the dictionary.
Patriotic Millionaires
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
would you trade the top $540K threshold position with the under $43.6K threshold position? if not, why not? they pay less tax ...
do you understand that there's revenue streams available to those in the top 10% the bottom quartile can only dream about that aren't treated as taxable income? of course you do
wait, this will be one post and one reply to someone I would only piss on if they were on fire. you go away and I'll stop ... I'll stop, you go away
ready, set ...
Covet however you please.
Whine on...
run along now, scoot!
here's a paradigm:
what would be a 'fair' flat tax rate? let's go low and say 15% [as if!!]
those earning $200K / year would owe $30K ... that's a good chunk of change but leaves $170K to spend
those earning $40K / year would owe $6K which leaves $34K to spend
this might look 'fair' as a percentage but if you have a modest mortgage on modest housing in urban America, let's say you're fortunate to pay $1.7K monthly [which is ridiculously low but matches a good rental rate] now there's $20.4K out of the budget leaving $13.6K / year to work with ... good luck
but you might say ... the median income for 2020 was $68.4K!
now you're looking at $10,260.00 in taxes leaving $58,140.00; with the same low mortgage you'll have $37.7K to work with ... start deducting utilities, state, local & property taxes, car payments, I'll assume you'll want groceries, and gawd help you if you have kids: good luck saving for the American Dream of retirement at 65
meanwhile the family bringing in $200K with a $2.5K mortgage [which is still unrealistically low] has $140K to budget ... if you're careful you might do OK in retirement ... but don't forget that those without a degree probably will never see $200K / year so count on student debt too .. I wouldn't plan on kids or college for them, but hey, the American dream says you'll want your 2.5 children / household for living the dream
does the above seem like a 'fair tax' to you? considering that even those earning median income are often saddled with student loan debt too, in a competitive job market it's a wonder those that do earn $200K / year get anywhere let alone the lower quartile ... and the poor just get poorer. oh, and your government can't possibly service debt on the 15% revenue!
if you had any interest in the real world impact of economics beyond parroting talking points perhaps take the time to look at income distribution and cost of living across the country ... then come back and
try to fit the talking points of the upper 10% into the country you live in, not the one described in Somewhereville USA that doesn't exist
I'd normally not take the time with you 51 but this seemed like a teachable moment and I'm experimenting with words penetrating the solipsism force field so many seem to bubble around in
so do your homework assignment, maybe play with the math, and let's see if your viewpoint changes. I'm betting against any epiphanies for some reason
be well,
"I have no skills and everyone else should pay my bills".
Good luck with that!
who are you quoting? did you intend a paraphrase?
math is a 'perverted view of reality'? what an odd statement
aren't you a 'numbers guy'? statistics may lie but math is math ...
if you're in a solipsistic reality it might just look incomprehensible
but math is math, those were real word problems and ... oh, now I get it
if you're having problems with comprehension, maybe try having someone read the post out loud for you? slowly of course. it's worth a try. if they're versed in algebra that usually helps too, even for dyslexia
I didn't mean to embarrass you E-stat honest ... aw, now I feel bad
good luck!
nt
I do know ... it was a bit of a surprise after asking E_slut to avoid me as I avoid him, which he honored for a while, to have a post from the bastard addressed to me with his usual shtick ... most likely prompted by the IQ51 character being left slack jawed when confronted with a post involving math & morality
yet zero response on what % a 'fair' flat tax would be from anyone
as you're aware there's actually several pro's to it that weren't trotted out. I guess the usual suspects either don't know what those are, or simply turn into shit flinging monkeys when they're confronted with cognitive dissonance ... with my standard apology to shit flinging monkeys everywhere
well, I'm hitting the honeydo trail now ... giddyup!
with regards,
Embarrassed by your deleted post?
Just showing up for work is NOT contributing to society.
Paying ZERO Federal taxes isn't a share of anything.
the completely self-absorbed reactionary twit to whom I was replying.
RV's (massively) edited and visible childish post speaks reams about him - as would yours!
Later...
final answer: go cry to mommy about your taxes and posts by meanies
re: the detente you broke ... *F* right off and go away
least regards,
fall over laughing over *serious* proposals like found in this thread for tripling the federal exemption amount!
Followed by your grade school jabs as found in your last post. ;)
Thanks again!
does the above seem like a 'fair tax' to you? ...
Pathetic. Sorry you have difficulty accepting reality.
shoo!
You deserve others to foot the bills, right?
Too funny!
eristic idiot
Edits: 03/16/21
Next up if you pay the same you make the same.
Easy-peasy just think outside the box.
Commie get out!
I am going to refrain from any more discussion of if taxes are mandatory or not or how to prove things and get out of their grip. It is too complicated a process, there are documents that need to be written EXACTLY right or it doesn't work. It involved making an accusation against the IRS and you better do that just right.
There is too much. And then once you are done you can't get certain jobs because signing that W-4 is practical suicide, it negates it all and you can only do it once.
The sovereign shit is even worse, you can't even register to vote, it also make it hard to even open a bank account.
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence. Alfred E. Neuman
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