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"Another is more money for Internal Revenue Service enforcement -- a way to boost revenue without raising rates. Estimates have found that for every additional $1 spent on IRS audits, the agency brings in an additional $3 to $5." atlantic monthly
No matter how one feels about the law, selective or spotty enforcement means we all eventually pay more (unless we're one of the cheaters; remember: wage slaves don't get to cheat very easily or meaningfully).
Follow Ups:
For folks in Rio Linda and elsewhere, the IRS (Internal Revenue Service) is an arm of the U.S. Department of the Treasury.
Their job is to collect money from people for the government to spend.
****
"So it is written, so it shall be."
Trade labor for labor, no exceptions.Make banks and bankers obsolete. They are the real troublemakers.
Edits: 03/17/21
"Make banks and bankers obsolete. They are the real troublemakers."
You aren't the first with that idea. However before advocating that understand how banking got so intertwined with society.
First of all the frauds etc. started a longtime ago.
We owe the Rothschilds for the modern concept of banking. They had so much money and moved around all over the world. Of course they wanted to buy things, in fact had to of course. To ship gold or whatever was risky, more so back then when there was quite a bit of piracy on the seas. Every time money got shipped it was vulnerable. So thy shipped it once. It was held in many places and by a letter one member of the family could say "Buy stock in that company" and the money as already there. But there were no loans involved yet, at east as we know them.
Evenetually it got to the point where they did form banks and make loans, take deposits and all that. Eventually they figured out that between withdrawals and loans they were not going to run out of ready cash so came fractional banking. This allowed them to loan out about 10 times their total deposits. Now they go up to 30 times. When the capitalisation is 10% that is 10X, 3% 30X. One of the last very stable banks was in Cleveland known as Third Federal, has 10% capitalisation for a long time, one of the last. (that may have changed recently)
Roger B. Taney, appointed by Jackson for the sole purpose of moving the country's money into the private hold after previous sec of treas had refused. In fact Taney was never confirmed. But he was rewarded with a federal judgeship. Then he rendered the Dred Scott decision that escaped slaves were not free when they made it to free states. Nice guy.
Now we got the federal reserve, owned by mostly foreign interests and instead of printing the money they borrow it. Thomas Edison advocated just printing it but there is a problem with that. The drop in currency value wold be almost immediate and would reflect on the current administration, so even though that way would have no interest they borrowed it to slough it off on the next guy, or maybe the next.
This is how we got here.
Eliminating money altogether is another story. To effectively barter a value must be assigned to things. Now what if a guy wants so many head of cattle and has grain to trade that is worth half the price ? How to make up the difference ? (and let's not hear about jews trading their daughters, I never saw how that would work really) But they only got so much and they NEED all those head of cattle to make their operation viable.
Well one solution would be some sort of debt markers, ones that are universal at least in the town that could be traded for other things the cattle guy needed, salt, grain whatever.
Thus the birth on money. First was shells, but anyone could go to the beach and get rich for nothing. Something a little harder eh? So eventually it became salt because salt was essential for life back then, not just for the cattle but also for the people. That is why the word "salary" - the etymology of it comes back to salt. (salarum)
Salt has to be mined or harvested from the ocean, it is real work. So maybe that is actual value, not counting its usefulness. The only place in the US it is easy to get is in Utah at the Salt Flats.
So that worked for a while but maybe Utah had too much money. Then came coins. At first these were made of precious metals, gold, silver and such. They were worth their weight in something.
Then FDR called in the gold, I swear there should have been a revolution right then. OR nobody comply, they don't have enough jails. If NOBODY complies usually the government drops it, like the requirement to register microwave ovens. I was in the industry when they first came into vogue and there was a notice on the side that there is a big penalty for not registering. But NOBODY complied so they just gave up. (you can make a weapon out of a microwave oven)
Still, bye bye gold, though jewelry was exempt and certain people took great advantage of that.
Ever since then, the currency is only worth what a check or money order is - value is based on the issuing institution. this is why if you but silver or gold, stack it. (that means buy it actually and put it in your safe, not have it on paper, even Fort Knox doesn't seem to be able to hold on to it)
So what is next ? We the democrats are going to have their expected effect on the currency. Technically already have, gas in LA is over five bucks a gallon. It is the same gas as before but costs more. That is not devaluation of the currency, it is oil companies building up money to bribe the government to have more pipeline wars, or the usual for control of the oil that exists. Hell within the last two months they have already bombed Syria. Perhaps they will go back to Venezuela, it is so much closer. Ever since Chavez died it has been going to hell in a handbasket.
And now, our debt to GDP ratio is about to get worse, which means that Moody's is going to have to lower our credit rating. They have to to maintain credibility.
Since most of our money is borrowed that means a devaluation, which people call inflation. We will have to pay more interest on that borrowed money. We are already paying interest on the interest.
You would think that would have little effect on domestically made goods, but for one some of their raw materials will go up, and for two they will charge what the market will bear. That means that because of the devaluation they and make a killing exporting so you pay the same or they will sell it all to the Russians/Chinese/Indians/French/whoever. This is called "business is business".
If you really want to barter, try a commune or even a kibbutz. Lazy people who can do at least something can get along there, but then they threw Biden out of one for being too useless. So you have to have some value.
So look forward to some real "inflation" folks and there is not shit we can do about it. Well there was one ting, get the job market up to the point where people could get a job and there was meaningful work, level the playing field on imports and exports and increase the tax base to the point where we might pay it down some. But all that ended in January.
So if I ever get my stimulus this round it will get out the bank immediately and I think I will stack some silver, I was thinking about another gun but maybe I got enough. Maybe a nicer one...
But suffice it to say, eliminating money would take a hell of alot of thought.
"Money", regardless of what material it is made from (or represents), should represent labor hours spent. But it has not always done that.As it was said in the movie "Treasure of the Sierra Madre", the main reason gold is considered precious is because of the amount of labor energy required to find, extract, and refine it. Not to mention the cost involved of securely transporting and storing it, also illustrated in the movie.
Do we have the guts and the willpower to do this? For who knows? The gangsters currently in charge of our economy might send out a death squad for me now that I have written this...
Edits: 03/20/21
They'll be watching your behavior.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
.
to tell the truth I'm shocked the crypto currencies have been 'allowed'
the ultimate fiat currency that of I've ever even heard of
'ones & zeros' beats the pants off tulips, which only failed the 'fungible test'
best regards,
Might you present your proof of your following statement.
"Now we got the federal reserve, owned by mostly foreign interests" Thanks in advance for the proof bro.
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence. Alfred E. Neuman
Hey jurbie, might you present proof that Biden was thrown out of a Kibbutz for being lazy. Thanks in advance bro. And if you buy a nicer gun I sure hope you don't shoot yourself in the foot with it.
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence. Alfred E. Neuman
I have to capitulate a point. To everyone, not just your arrogant tweaky ass.
I have caught myself doing this before and, well I think again.
There are plenty of statements I make that should be prefaced by "I read..." or "I heard..." but I fail to do that. This makes people think I am speaking authoritatively. Well sometimes I am but then...other times I am not.
For example, Biden getting thrown out of a commune. I read that somewhere and said to myself "Self, this makes sense". But now thinking back that might not have been Biden. I am fairly sure it was a democrat but not so much him.
Really, part of it is I like in person, and when I say certain shit some people ask, you sure ? Then comes a nice argument. And that is another thing, most people think an argument is yelling and all that hit. Hey, what you present to the court is an argument, but is totally civil and if in person better follow Robert's Rules Of Order. Like when I litigated my own case a couple years ago, it was an argument but no yelling or anything.
Anyway, back to the main point, I will be working to do what I said - if it is only hearsay I will present it as such.
To close, fuck off. (not really lol)
Maybe I mistyped that, it was a commune. A kibbutz is a state sponsored commune by jews. Pretty much their word for commune.
I can't find it now but I read it somewhere.
On thing is for sure, he just called Kamala "President Harris" in public and for that I can provide a video.
Another thing for sure is he has never had a job.
"Another thing for sure is he has never had a job." Wrong again jurbie, but of course I'm not surprised. He was a lawyer, quite possibly one of the hardest jobs there is, a property manager and how you could call being a US Senator and a Vice President of the USA not a job is beyond my comprehension.
job
noun
1.
a paid position of regular employment.
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence. Alfred E. Neuman
"Another thing for sure is he has never had a job." Wrong again jurb..."
Now you are arguing against wiki. Got evidence ? Go edit it.
"I went to a Catholic prep school that my mom and dad couldn't afford," the Vice President recalled.So as a teenager, he landed his first job, on the school's gardening crew.
"My working there, it paid part of my tuition. That was the first job I had," Vice President Biden said.
He would later earn money as a lifeguard, a truck driver and ultimately a lawyer, before moving into politics.
So here we are, jurbie says Biden has never had a job. So far it seems very credible to me that he had a job on a gardening crew,had a job as a lifeguard, had a job as a truck driver, had a job as a lawyer, had a job as as an adjunct professor, had a job as a United States Senator, had a job as a Vice President of the United States of America and now has a job as President of the United States.
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence.
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence. Alfred E. Neuman
Edits: 03/20/21
From wiki about Biden:
"In 1969, Biden practiced law first as a public defender and then at a firm headed by a locally active Democrat[32][30] who named him to the Democratic Forum, a group trying to reform and revitalize the state party;[33] Biden subsequently reregistered as a Democrat.[30] He and another attorney also formed a law firm.[32] Corporate law, however, did not appeal to him, and criminal law did not pay well.[13] He supplemented his income by managing properties.[34]" Once again your contention that Joe Biden has never had a job is false. I would add that it is a straight up lie. Lawyer, property manager, Senator,Vice President and now President. That's never having a job?
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence. Alfred E. Neuman
Nt
'No matter how one feels about the law, selective or spotty enforcement means ... '
"No tyranny is more cruel than that which is practiced in the shadow of the law and with the trappings of justice: that is, one would drown the unfortunate by the very plank by which he would hope to be saved"
Montesquieu
We won't know if the theory is sound until it's too late.
Same goes for the theory that climate change is not a big deal.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
Trouble with 'theory' is 'practice'.
People REACT to inputs by changing behavior.
I can't imagine the changes that would occur should MMT become accepted and acted upon by a large number of governments.
Too much is never enough
Because they can't print money. But I agree with you.
Alan Greenspan is a fool and I tend to oppose everything he endorses.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
total concurrence, additional funding meant more revenue for us. Louisiana's Gov. Edwards was a crook on many levels but he never f'd with the dept. of Revenue. His words, "it was the cash register and the cash register was off limits" (& always well funded & equipped).
----------------------
"E Burres Stigano?"
The progressive tax rate table is intrinsically fair and a thing of beauty. Every American pays the exact same tax on the same dollars.
rant The progressive tax scheme is intrinsically unfair. Why should one person pay more taxes than another person?
Can one person use more government benefits?
I am qualified for VA health benefits as the result of my service. I am ineligible because of the income limit. Why should an otherwise qualified veteran be denied a health care benefit that I earned the same way as those who can receive it? /rant
The kind of disincentive you are suffering seems to be a result of lack of funding, ie. the lack of government revenue. Instead of collecting taxes and funding programs legislatures are giving tax breaks and incentives to the wealthy and leaving infrastructure unfunded and in disrepair.Unquestionably the wealthy have thrived over the last 40 years while the working class (all of it not just the working poor) has fallen further behind. You are a victim of economic policy not the progressive tax system.
Year in and year out the same people who gut government to profit their big spending buddies insist that the lazy poor and government is our enemy. Screw that - your complaint is one of the rich getting the funds (via tax cuts, deregulation and other perks) that should be going to the program forced to cut you out because of lack of money to include you.
That said if you don't like it you could always make less money to qualify for the benefit you "earned". I know vets who are so down and out they can't even get to the VA hospital to collect that they "earned" much less make a few bucks to even not be disqualified for the benefits. Consider yourself lucky.
Edits: 03/16/21
START by enforcing what we current have. Estimates of 'lost' or 'noncollected' revenue run into the billions.
THAN evaluate if additional revenue is needed.
Straighten out mess, at link, which if implimented could give us ALL a break.
Too much is never enough
'enforcing what we current have'
yeah, about that 'we' ...
that article you linked targets tax policies and critiques international trade agreements and developmental deals cut with international corporations in developing countries all under the control of foreign governments ... while agreeing with most of the analysis, of course the main obstacle for change in those 'southern countries' are those very governments ... and as fairly noted, IMF and World Bank incentive policies
meanwhile, back in the USA ... ?
regards,
don't get me started on BIS......the swiss bank
Too much is never enough
Janet Yellen can tell you all about it.
****
"So it is written, so it shall be."
"Every American pays the exact same tax"
Read my previous post.
****
"So it is written, so it shall be."
When you ARE a taxpayer tough you can refuse to pay interest and penalties. What little authority they have, which was created when you signed that W-4 is to collect taxes. Not penalties or interest. You can just tell them "The Constitution did not make you law enforcement so you cannot levy fines. the Constitution did not make you a bank so you can't charge interest. Wanna see in court ? Let's go.
They will accept just the tax if you have it in cash, well check or whatever, but all at once. But that only applies if you NEVER sign a payment agreement.
Besides, who wants this government to have any money ? I wish Moody's would put us at about C, where we belong. You don't know what's coming, it is too political to post here but I could find a place and once you read it, their agenda you won't want them to have a fucking dime. I know what's coming.
i.e., first case, reasonable cause for late payment, underpayment caused by an IRS error, etc.. As for the IRS not having the statutory authority to levy & collect penalties & interest, might I suggest you get advice from a tax professional instead of Youtube "experts"?
----------------------
"E Burres Stigano?"
Edits: 03/15/21 03/15/21
"As for the IRS not having the statutory authority to levy & collect penalties & interest, might I suggest you get advice from a tax professional instead of Youtube "experts"? "
Is that what you think ? I tell you this right now, DO NOT LISTEN TO ANY OF THEM. Do not listen to any of the plans out there now. Most of them just piss off the IRS and you have to pay anyway, and some of them can land you in jail.
I take no legal advice from youtube or any other current media. Te one pln that works is over twenty years old and is the only one to my knowledge that does not fail.
There was no fucking youtube. and if that's what you think then just ignore me.
----------------------
"E Burres Stigano?"
the key is to die owing taxes and creditors ... enough leveraged income from as many income streams as possible and you can manage any civil penalties so long as you don't avoid paying them and taxes on income you can't successfully write off ... it's actually hard to trigger criminal penalties unless / until there's forensic audits; sell the companies [even starting the process slows debt collection down] or die and who cares?
that's what I've seen ... up close too!
you need a sizeable chunk to kick things off and actually be able to turn a profit to get the ball rolling, but once you do .... you're living large
does that sound like a decent short hand synopsis Road Warrior?
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"E Burres Stigano?"
----------------------
"E Burres Stigano?"
I don't know about you but I find this knucklehead sovereign citizen BS just absolutely tedious ... if they had to pass a citizenship test they would fail yet think they're constitutional and government administration experts but couldn't pass civics 101 ... they might as well be elected to the senate and spout CT nonsense and all of a sudden I don't feel very well
with regards,
"I don't know about you but I find this knucklehead sovereign citizen BS"
I didn't say a word about that. If you read that I suggest you review.
The sovereign shit is real, but a long time ago everyone abandoned it because it served no real purpose. I never went for it because even then I asked "why" and got no good answer.
----------------------
"E Burres Stigano?"
stiff the IRS on interest or penalties. All info I have says it's perfectly legal.
Of course, a simple logic would tell one that: if one could avoid paying taxes indefinitely and not have a penalty, why pay any taxes, at all? Just wait until you die.
As far as "the sky is falling!"
Nah. all the economic crises throughout the history of the world have come because of the wealthy ripping off the system, not addressing the needs of the rest.
"stiff the IRS on interest or penalties. All info I have says it's perfectly legal"
Don't get me wrong. You don't just not send it to them, talk to them during the "interview" and tell them they are not a bank nor a law enforcement agency.
Thing is, the agent knows you can win the point in court quite easily and without a lawyer.
Tell you what else, "all the info" you got is from the IRS code, which is not law. And in fact is not binding if you never sign up for it.
See those tax help people on TV ? Well they know what I know and once they are identified as the caller the entire tone of it changes.
They don't know about the no law thing, or they don't want to tell. I am fairly careful with that, to many people do it they will fix it.
Actually all they have to do is have a bill in congress pass and be signed and that takes care of that, but they do not want to do that. See the US has some "friends" to whom they would not want that to apply, and if they state the exceptions on the law people will ask. So right now a few scant tens of thousands of people are actually non-taxpayers and the government wants to keep it just how it is.
Another good scam out there are the credit card people. Credit Associates IIRC starts their commercial with this secret the credit card companies don't want you to know. I bet the credit card people paid for the damn ad ! Know why ?
First of all they are under no obligation to reduce your balance. You don't have the "right" to have them settle it for you. The credit card helpers first of all know that the company will never accept less than the principle. But before I filed bankruptcy I was paying $1,000 per month in interest. I only delayed filing because there was an inheritance involved, which with the right lawyer I got total discharge and kept the house the car, the machine shop and all the tools, the works.
THAT is what they don't like because they get nothing. If you make a deal with them you are under contract to not file bankruptcy, at east on them or you have to reaffirm right away.
Now there's something about the IRS, if you owe them and can dodge them for ten years they can't collect. however that is hard. AND, if you make a deal with them the ten year clock starts fresh.
Now the IRS has more power to go bug those who don't know shit if they are better funded, and they get results - now. But that is bound to result in diminishing returns.
Thing is, that money means almost nothing. They borrow interest on the interest of the national debt. Another thing, the economy is going to go south in the next few years and they don't seem to care about losing that revenue. Why worry about your stupid three or five grand ?
Plus you might want to consider if you even want to pay them at all. Defund the police, take your guns and let in a bunch of criminals. That's right, you think those countries are sending us their doctors and engineers ? Fuck no, they are emptying out the prisons and they are not sending political dissidents. They wouldn't let the dissidents anywhere western media.
I don't pay them. They defund the police what happens when some thugs decide they want your stereo ? Remember i f you cal 911 tyou will get "Well get out so you don't get hurt and prepare a list for your insurance company". They got guns and you do not.
I will not pay them especially when they don't even want to pay the police. Of course I do not want the police bothering me, but they got no reason to.
I will not pay those jerks in government.
Tell ya what, this year don't pay your taxes (provided you have a remaining liability after filling out your return) & when you get your bill for tax, penalty, & interest, ignore their P & I bill & get bk to us on how it all plays out. My Fortune Top 20 tax clients will be very interested in your outcome.
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"E Burres Stigano?"
"ignore their P & I bill & get bk to us on how it all plays out"
It doesn't work that way. Either the agent at an audit does it after talking with their supervisor or a judge does it.
Never ignore anything with them people.
tax due is entered into the system & voila, a bill, with P & I, is generated. If that bill isn't paid, a demand letter will be sent.
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"E Burres Stigano?"
"tax due is entered into the system & voila, a bill, with P & I, is generated. If that bill isn't paid, a demand letter will be sent."
Yes. Don't pay it at all. Just respond by mail that you don't owe this. When they call you in is the time. Then an agent IS involved and if you get a rookie that won't, ask for their supervisor. Then they will.
Don't bother, just live your life in fear.
I favor zero taxes for income below $30K which may work better than increasing the minimum wage. Full time work at $15 per hour equates to annual income of $31,200.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
don't contribute anything to society. ;)
The new bill gives those a refundable credit off $3,000 to $3,600 per child depending on age, in monthly checks, $600 a month for two youngsters.
I believe that taxes don't kick in until you hit $40K or more for a family of four.
-Rod
You may be correct about how it works for a family of four. But that family has a hard row to hoe. It's prolly either homeless, living in a car, living in an abandoned house trailer or RV, squatting, living in parents' basement, etc.; and paying sales tax, FICA, and municipal or state taxes.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
good idea Jay, that would simplify a hell of a lot of things
I'd be in favor of that along with SS income excluded by all states + the Fed, a more equitable tax rate revision [to include ALL income] and the retirement age dropped back to 62 ... negotiable subject to actuarial analysis, provided the age doesn't exceed 65 ... just that tax revision would disappear the deficit in short order and put the budget in the black
that sounds a little too fair though so of course it won't fly
with regards,
We all get the same Federal government. Benefits and liabilities.
What is the Federal budget?
Divide it by the number of citizens/residents/territory citizens/residents.
What would that be? Just throwing out a number: $5,000 per person.
Annual fee. Adjustable each year. Easy-peasy. Done.
****
"So it is written, so it shall be."
that tax scheme is regressive so it's neither fair or balanced
there's three words up there that you're undoubtedly familiar with
here's some periods .......
enjoy
be well,
Government is what secures that wealth and investment. Wealthy people get the most benefit, folks in the safety nets follow, and working folks who make the least get the least benefit.
In fact for the last 40 years government legislation has heavily favored the speculator and business owner over the worker. That's a pretty big bias in the wealthy column. The driving point of reducing the size of federal government is to reduce consumer/worker protections and free up money for the wealthy.
Flat tax my ass. This country abolished slavery 150 years ago but every effort has been made since then to replace it with American masses.
You missed the important point. You can argue that laws are passed which benefit some people more than others. That's called "politics". But, when it comes to the fundamental duties of the government, we all benefit equally. So, we should all pay equally. This isn't difficult to understand, but it does require thinking outside of the usual paradigm.
Take the Federal budget, divide it by the number of people in the U.S. and territories, and everyone pays their "fair share". Easy-peasy. Done.
****
"So it is written, so it shall be."
are whiners who want everyone else to foot the bills. ;)For anyone actually interested in reality...
Edits: 03/16/21
About 60% or higher from about 1934 to 1983 or so. A progressive income tax is a fulcrum on which any semi decent modern society rests (IMHO). It exist and has existed in the most successful economies on the planet.Elementary. Please take note of when the Great Depression and the Great Recession happened.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
No surprise that's what you find significant!
What's really more important than detached bracket values is the total tax revenue generated. Note the greatest rise occurred following the lowering of the marginal bracket rate!
In 1983 when the highest bracket was 50%, total revenue was $601B. By 1990, when the rate was at its lowest , revenues almost doubled to $1.03T.
The data can be found here .
U.S. Tax Revenue by Year
Here's a record of income for each fiscal year since 1789. Tax receipts fell off during the recession but started setting new records by FY 2013.6
Fiscal Year Revenue
FY 2021 $3.86 (estimated)
FY 2020 $3.71 trillion (estimated)
FY 2019 $3.46 trillion (actual)
FY 2018 $3.33 trillion
FY 2017 $3.32 trillion
FY 2016 $3.27 trillion
FY 2015 $3.25 trillion
FY 2014 $3.02 trillion
FY 2013 $2.77 trillion
FY 2012 $2.45 trillion
FY 2011 $2.30 trillion
FY 2010 $2.16 trillion
FY 2009 $2.10 trillion
FY 2008 $2.52 trillion
FY 2007 $2.57 trillion
FY 2006 $2.41 trillion
FY 2005 $2.15 trillion
FY 2004 $1.88 trillion
FY 2003 $1.78 trillion
FY 2002 $1.85 trillion
FY 2001 $1.99 trillion
FY 2000 $2.03 trillion
FY 1999 $1.82 trillion
FY 1998 $1.72 trillion
FY 1997 $1.58 trillion
FY 1996 $1.45 trillion
FY 1995 $1.35 trillion
FY 1994 $1.26 trillion
FY 1993 $1.15 trillion
FY 1992 $1.09 trillion
FY 1991 $1.05 trillion
FY 1990 $1.03 trillion
FY 1989 $991 billion
FY1988 $909 billion
FY 1987 $854 billion
FY 1986 $769 billion
FY 1985 $734 billion
FY 1984 $666 billion
FY 1983 $601 billion
FY 1982 $618 billion
FY 1981 $599 billion
FY 1980 $517 billion
FY 1979 $463 billion
FY 1978 $399 billion
FY 1977 $356 billion
FY 1976 $298 billion
FY 1975 $279 billion
FY 1974 $263 billion
FY 1973 $231 billion
FY 1972 $207 billion
FY 1971 $187 billion
FY 1970 $193 billion
FY 1969 $187 billion
FY 1968 $153 billion
FY 1967 $149 billion
FY 1966 $131 billion
FY 1965 $117 billion
FY 1964 $113 billion
FY 1963 $107 billion
FY 1962 $100 billion
FY 1961 $94 billion
FY 1960 $93 billion
US Government total revenues in 1930 with a highest income tax rate of about 25%- 2951.4. US Government total revenues in 1940 with a highest income tax rate of near or at 80% 6222.2. Over double with a tripling of the income tax rate.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
I don't know what you guys are arguing about. According to the Joe himself, he's been in Congress for 140 years. Who am I to doubt him?
****
"So it is written, so it shall be."
What percentage of government revenue comes from taxes?
50 percent
Federal Budget. What are the sources of revenue for the federal government? About 50 percent of federal revenue comes from individual income taxes, 7 percent from corporate income taxes, and another 36 percent from payroll taxes that fund social insurance programs (figure 1). The rest comes from a mix of sources.
Tax Policy Center, "What are the sources of revenue for the ...https://www.taxpolicycenter.org › briefing-book › what...
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Short attention span added to you list of maladies?
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Why did it take a week for you to initially respond? ;)
This conversation was over long ago.
Trump: I Believe In Raising Taxes on the Wealthy, "Including Myself"
Posted By Tim Hains
On Date April 21, 2016 on video
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Is it your contention that there is a 1 to 1 correlation and causality between lower and lowering top marginal Federal tax rates on the filthy rich and an increase in Federal coffers?
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Edits: 03/29/21
believe higher marginal rates produce any more revenue. ;)
I just provided the data where that happens to have been the trend for the past several decades save black swan events like 2001, 2008 and last year.
All "soak the rich" plans ultimately fail due to not thinking through what will actually occur. The wealthy and their tax accountants are not fools. The Luxury Tax fiasco in the 80s is a perfect example. It just put blue collar workers out of jobs.
If you look at the period of time of your data between 1960 and 1983 when the highest marginal income tax rate was at 60% or greater you can see that the Federal income in 1960 was 93 billion and in 601 billion in 1983. A 6.6 fold increase in Federal income in that period. Your inference is way too simplistic. One, IMHO, must look at the whole situation, inflation,spending policy,corporate tax policy,loophole policy, the behavior of the rich and filthy rich. How they invest and spend.Interest rates. What is the overall effect on the quality of life of the society in general. And GDP growth of course. You might find the below article of interest. Here is an excerpt.
"U.S. economic growth has been strongest when our taxes have been high. During World War II, then under Truman, Eisenhower, and Kennedy, our upper marginal tax rates were between 88%-92%. Read those numbers again. They are astonishingly high. Those were our strongest growth years." 2009
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
A 6.6 fold increase in Federal income in that period.
More than half of which was due to inflation. Sorry, your understanding of relevant math remains lacking.
The economic boom following World War II has nothing to do with marginal tax rates. The Wizard of Oz was popular then, too. Prosperity must be responsible by that factor. ;)
Keep up the good work whining about *the rich*!
... and seem to have at least somewhat of a conscience. I know it's a big scary word but you might look it up in the dictionary.
Patriotic Millionaires
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
would you trade the top $540K threshold position with the under $43.6K threshold position? if not, why not? they pay less tax ...
do you understand that there's revenue streams available to those in the top 10% the bottom quartile can only dream about that aren't treated as taxable income? of course you do
wait, this will be one post and one reply to someone I would only piss on if they were on fire. you go away and I'll stop ... I'll stop, you go away
ready, set ...
Covet however you please.
Whine on...
run along now, scoot!
here's a paradigm:
what would be a 'fair' flat tax rate? let's go low and say 15% [as if!!]
those earning $200K / year would owe $30K ... that's a good chunk of change but leaves $170K to spend
those earning $40K / year would owe $6K which leaves $34K to spend
this might look 'fair' as a percentage but if you have a modest mortgage on modest housing in urban America, let's say you're fortunate to pay $1.7K monthly [which is ridiculously low but matches a good rental rate] now there's $20.4K out of the budget leaving $13.6K / year to work with ... good luck
but you might say ... the median income for 2020 was $68.4K!
now you're looking at $10,260.00 in taxes leaving $58,140.00; with the same low mortgage you'll have $37.7K to work with ... start deducting utilities, state, local & property taxes, car payments, I'll assume you'll want groceries, and gawd help you if you have kids: good luck saving for the American Dream of retirement at 65
meanwhile the family bringing in $200K with a $2.5K mortgage [which is still unrealistically low] has $140K to budget ... if you're careful you might do OK in retirement ... but don't forget that those without a degree probably will never see $200K / year so count on student debt too .. I wouldn't plan on kids or college for them, but hey, the American dream says you'll want your 2.5 children / household for living the dream
does the above seem like a 'fair tax' to you? considering that even those earning median income are often saddled with student loan debt too, in a competitive job market it's a wonder those that do earn $200K / year get anywhere let alone the lower quartile ... and the poor just get poorer. oh, and your government can't possibly service debt on the 15% revenue!
if you had any interest in the real world impact of economics beyond parroting talking points perhaps take the time to look at income distribution and cost of living across the country ... then come back and
try to fit the talking points of the upper 10% into the country you live in, not the one described in Somewhereville USA that doesn't exist
I'd normally not take the time with you 51 but this seemed like a teachable moment and I'm experimenting with words penetrating the solipsism force field so many seem to bubble around in
so do your homework assignment, maybe play with the math, and let's see if your viewpoint changes. I'm betting against any epiphanies for some reason
be well,
"I have no skills and everyone else should pay my bills".
Good luck with that!
who are you quoting? did you intend a paraphrase?
math is a 'perverted view of reality'? what an odd statement
aren't you a 'numbers guy'? statistics may lie but math is math ...
if you're in a solipsistic reality it might just look incomprehensible
but math is math, those were real word problems and ... oh, now I get it
if you're having problems with comprehension, maybe try having someone read the post out loud for you? slowly of course. it's worth a try. if they're versed in algebra that usually helps too, even for dyslexia
I didn't mean to embarrass you E-stat honest ... aw, now I feel bad
good luck!
nt
I do know ... it was a bit of a surprise after asking E_slut to avoid me as I avoid him, which he honored for a while, to have a post from the bastard addressed to me with his usual shtick ... most likely prompted by the IQ51 character being left slack jawed when confronted with a post involving math & morality
yet zero response on what % a 'fair' flat tax would be from anyone
as you're aware there's actually several pro's to it that weren't trotted out. I guess the usual suspects either don't know what those are, or simply turn into shit flinging monkeys when they're confronted with cognitive dissonance ... with my standard apology to shit flinging monkeys everywhere
well, I'm hitting the honeydo trail now ... giddyup!
with regards,
Embarrassed by your deleted post?
Just showing up for work is NOT contributing to society.
Paying ZERO Federal taxes isn't a share of anything.
the completely self-absorbed reactionary twit to whom I was replying.
RV's (massively) edited and visible childish post speaks reams about him - as would yours!
Later...
final answer: go cry to mommy about your taxes and posts by meanies
re: the detente you broke ... *F* right off and go away
least regards,
fall over laughing over *serious* proposals like found in this thread for tripling the federal exemption amount!
Followed by your grade school jabs as found in your last post. ;)
Thanks again!
does the above seem like a 'fair tax' to you? ...
Pathetic. Sorry you have difficulty accepting reality.
shoo!
You deserve others to foot the bills, right?
Too funny!
eristic idiot
Edits: 03/16/21
Next up if you pay the same you make the same.
Easy-peasy just think outside the box.
Commie get out!
I am going to refrain from any more discussion of if taxes are mandatory or not or how to prove things and get out of their grip. It is too complicated a process, there are documents that need to be written EXACTLY right or it doesn't work. It involved making an accusation against the IRS and you better do that just right.
There is too much. And then once you are done you can't get certain jobs because signing that W-4 is practical suicide, it negates it all and you can only do it once.
The sovereign shit is even worse, you can't even register to vote, it also make it hard to even open a bank account.
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence. Alfred E. Neuman
There is no law that says you have to pay income taxes.
Two friends of mine took on the IRS and got declared non-taxpayers, I saw the papers the IRS sent them after their rigamaroll. The classification is like foreign arms dealers etc.
There is only ONE way to do this that works, all the junk they advertise is junk and might get you thrown in jail.
The Truth About Frivolous Arguments - Section I (A to C)
Search for the above if the link does not work.
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence. Alfred E. Neuman
Edits: 03/16/21
404 Page Not Found
and that's the truth!
maybe just let it go? you've got better things to do right?
regards,
It works now.
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence. Alfred E. Neuman
"There is no law that says you have to pay income taxes." As usual jurbie you are full of shit. This one is so stupid and so easily proven false that I won't waste my time other that to point out another example of complete denial of obvious reality. The kind of thing that came close and still may destroy our country.
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence. Alfred E. Neuman
""There is no law that says you have to pay income taxes." As usual jurbie you are full of shit. "
Prove it. You cannot. It has all been through in the courts.
I shouldn't even be responding to your Dunning Kreuger ass. You think you know it all but in reality know very little.
How many years did you study this issue ? How any ex-law professors from Harvard tutored you ?
Ad I can tell yyou what happens when you got through the whole argument, sometimes after all that they claim since it is in the Constitution there need be no law. BULSHIT. the Constitution enables them to make laws to protect our rights. For example to be secure in your papers n shit, so there are laws against theft, B&E and all that. Can't be deprived of life without a trial therefore laws against murder. This means elements of the crime, any mitigations and of course the penalty limits.
Well they never did that. Whatever "proof" you come up with will be debunked. Has been IN COURT.
Want more fleagle ?
Assuming the Constitution is "enough" then define income.
They are up and down that social security you get is not your money saved up, your money went to pay the older people, then the younger people pay for you. During retirement most people and up getting more than the total they paid in.
Why is that not income ? Why is RRTA not income ? The Constitution says "from all sources". Well that is a source.
"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration"
It doesn't even say ANYONE has to pay.
Get back to me when you educate yourself, and become not such an asshole.
"Prove it. You cannot. It has all been through in the courts."
26 U.S. Code § 7201.Attempt to evade or defeat tax
U.S. Code
Any person who willfully attempts in any manner to evade or defeat any tax imposed by this title or the payment thereof shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $100,000 ($500,000 in the case of a corporation), or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both, together with the costs of prosecution.
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence. Alfred E. Neuman
"Any person who willfully attempts in any manner to evade or defeat any tax imposed by this title or the payment thereof shall..."
You just don't get it do you ? That law does not say ME. Andy income is not income. I trade labor for money and as far as I am concerned I break even. Now, income from investments is another story, nothing gets you out of that because somehow it is income even though SS and RRTA are not.
Investors make money and get rich because of the government propping up the system, which they will like Obama did with QE. They got something for that money and should pay.
Performers are in a gray area as far as I am concerned, the US' intellectual property laws being in their favor. Should they pay ?
Well the government never helped me make money. I don't owe them shit and if they ever come I will laugh in their face.
christmas turkey award of the day. CTAOTD This could be the start of something new!aka FOSAACTAOTD
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence. Alfred E. Neuman
Edits: 03/17/21 03/17/21
you're getting all muddy pig rasslin
just saying
I see your point rv but I do like fried bacon.
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence. Alfred E. Neuman
nt
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence. Alfred E. Neuman
Edits: 03/16/21 03/17/21
"This is not to mention all the people who have gone to prison for tax evasion, many who are or were quite wealthy enough to hire excellent lawyers. "
Lawyers can't do it.
It's Kruger not Kreuger. And of course you are projecting and using everyone's favorite logical fallacy, the ad hominem logical fallacy.
"How many years did you study this issue ? How any ex-law professors from Harvard tutored you ?" This is what is called the Appeal to Authority logical fallacy. Both are rather pathetic in light of the actual evidence which includes both the document I provided from the IRS which goes through, step by step in a great detail why your thesis is false. This is not to mention all the people who have gone to prison for tax evasion, many who are or were quite wealthy enough to hire excellent lawyers.
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence. Alfred E. Neuman
"from the IRS"
You just ended it right there. It does not apply to me.
I was wrong about Biden kicked out of the commune, it was Bernie Sanders.
They tried to schmooze it over saying he was just visiting but if that were true why throw him out ?
On the topic though, to fully find the IRS you know they only have so many agents. If they hire more they might be very hard to get rid of.
And what about Biden "for sure" never having a job? Might you be wrong about that too?
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
"And what about Biden "for sure" never having a job? Might you be wrong about that too?"
Going with wiki
"Beginning in 1953, the family lived in an apartment in Claymont, Delaware, before moving to a house in Wilmington, Delaware.[13] Biden Sr. later became a successful used-car salesman, maintaining the family in a middle-class lifestyle"
Maybe one.
"In 1968, Biden earned a Juris Doctor from Syracuse University College of Law, ranked 76th in his class of 85"
1968
"In 1968, Biden clerked at a Wilmington law firm..."
I guess I have to stand corrected, but not by much.
"In 1969, Biden practiced law first as a public defender "
Public though.
"He supplemented his income by managing properties"
Supplemented, as in part time.
"In 1970, Biden ran for the 4th District Seat on the New Castle County Council on a liberal platform..."
And then never off the pubic though.
Maybe that is some working, but not much.
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence.
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence. Alfred E. Neuman
technically it's illegal to not file and avoid paying them
if you're filing but not avoiding paying them because you don't have the money because you keep spending it you just keep owing more taxes
it's not illegal to be a shitty money manager
then I guess you get elected or something
but yeah, you really shouldn't waste your time & it's like stepping on gum
regards,
"technically it's illegal to not file and avoid paying them "
Their regulations say I think if you made more than a certain amount.
If you work for wages you probably signed a W-4, that makes you subject to their jurisdiction. Now, a good thing to find is a job that will pay you directly and no nothing to do with the IRS. In fact on my resume' (edited down to five pages finally) says "I will invoice you".
Some may ask for a W-9, but that can be refused. Ask them if they require a W-9 from their landlord. (that has actually been tried) How about their vendors of parts and materials. If I make an order from WWW Grainger should I get a W-9 from them ?
I sold some mineral rights a couple years back and they wanted one, I simply refused, and you will not withhold you will send the entire amount or be in breach of contract. Check was there in a couple off days.
Another ting y'all should know, if they owe you there is no deadline. Know what they don't really like ? If you don't file for a bunch of years and then dump them all on them, then they pay interest. Tell you what, it is more than you are likely to get at a bank.
More Top Stories
Treasury Secretary Yellen pushes global minimum tax to help pay for Biden's plans
The goal is for countries to agree in principle to a minimum corporate tax rate - though it would be nonbinding - that would make it harder for multinational corporations to play countries off one another by threatening to leave.
By Jeff Stein 1 hour ago 3/15/2021
Theirs is an ignorance that cannot be dissuaded by logic or evidence. Alfred E. Neuman
Edits: 03/15/21
they shouldn't either. After all, they're "people," according to the SCOTUS.
And if they want to proclaim their EX-USA Status so that the don't pay taxes, then they need to register as a foreign agent if they make political contributions....
Happy Listening
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