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In Reply to: RE: REVIEW: Tekton Design Lore Speakers posted by jaydacus on July 26, 2017 at 22:12:09
Got the Lores last week and am delighted.Background. I've been on a quest to like Klipsch speakers since the '60s. The only ones that appealed were the K-Horns in a 30X20X8 space. Something about that horn mid/tweeter. Sorry, Heresy lovers. I've really tried.
I agree with much of what you wrote. Being a jazz and classical snob, I listen to different music than yourself. I listened to the Mahler 2nd Symphony last night, Bernstein on DG CD. Wow! The dynamics were incredible and, yes, I am hearing detail that I've never heard before. Perhaps I'll write a "real" review later. It might be a little early(!) for too many conclusions.
I'm not familiar with your amp. The loudest I play music in my 19X11.5X9 room is in the low 90db's. Could you tell me about your amp, power, etc.? I'm thinking about low power tube amps but don't want to run out of juice.
I had pretty good communication with "Karma" at Tekton but am still waiting on my grills. No biggie. May not use them anyway.
Thanks for the write up and hope to hear more from you. Perhaps I'll post some impressions later if there's an interest.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
Edits: 07/27/17Follow Ups:
My amp is basically the Yaqin MC-13S. There is a company on Ebay called silk audio that trades the capacitors for better ones sells it under their name. The don't offer the one I have anymore, but now have an newer version that has a different input stage and remote control. I may upgrade at some point.
The amp is rated at 40-52WPC depending on where you look. It's EL34 based so I just assume that about the first 25-30 watts is clean. It has a meter on the front so you have a pretty good idea when it is running out of gas. I don't have a way to measure exact DB. but I would estimate I normally listen between 10 and 60% of what the amp will do and that is pretty loud, but without distortion.
If you are normally listening between 10 and 60% of power output of that amp into the Lores, you are normally damaging your hearing.
If those Lores are 98dB at 1 Watt, then 4W per side will yield about 104dB at the listening seat (give or take). Being generous and assuming that is peak level and your decently recorded music has, say, 14dB of dynamic range, you are exposed to 90dB of noise, continuously (plus the peaks). So even with this very rough estimate you are at risk of some damage with about 2 hours of exposure. If you are listening to music without much dynamic range (very common now) continuous exposure would be more like > 95dB and your hearing is at risk after 15 to 30 minutes or so. A lot of people would find these levels (very) "loud" in a domestic setting.
Assuming a quality amplifier - one that does not need power to mitigate its sins - two Watts should be loud enough for most folks... and still capable of inflicting hearing damage over longer listening sessions. Personally, these days I prefer a system that does not need to be cranked... though I still turn it up on occasion.
Take care!
91.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
You're correct about how loud and damaging it would be. And it would be true if that speaker were closer to 90 dB efficient because 1 watt alone would be 90 dB which is dangerously loud long term. But I'd add that around 90 dB is probably the true efficiency of the Lore. There's no way a single, small driver can go down to 30 Hz and play 90 dB with 1 watt, much less 98 dB without horn loading and 30 Hz means a huge horn.
B102-8 (from a French site)
my B102s
Old B102 ooutdoors in fake Druid
indoors - old B102 vs new spec B102
Karlson Evangelist
Edits: 07/29/17
Good point. With most of the acoustic energy in much music being generated in the bass to lower mid frequencies, if a speaker is not efficient there, then it is not practically efficient.
Still, as you say, the risk of damage is high.
Cheers,
91.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
All very true I'm sure. I'm getting older, so I really don't listen at crazy volumes anymore. If I were sitting right in front of the speakers that would be more the 10-20%(estimate). Anything beyond that would be for listening elsewhere in the house. Yes. Most of the music I listen to has very little dynamic range because I do tend to listen to newer music like Train and Coldplay. I wish everything was recorded more like Steely Dan, but that is just not where recording levels are at right now.
I was thinking that all of these remasters keep coming out louder and louder. The re-re-release of Sgt. Pepper is gash in my opinion. Very loud and bumpy. Maybe in the future the selling point when remastering will be MORE DYNAMIC. One can only hope.
In Roon, I can now easily see the dynamic range of recordings. Amazing that much of the ambient (not new age) and minimal composition - quiet music - is far more dynamic than "energetic" popular recordings.But hey, why do something well when you can do it cheaply yet superficially impressive and aspirational (broad appeal and status affirming). Ultimately unsatisfying and disposable are also good - keep them spending. I hope true independent recording artists/ labels, niche producers, designers, crafts-persons, artisans etc. will prevail and point to a different way - satisfying, long-lasting, well-designed products that have meaning beyond commerce and its best friend, fashion.
Wow, sorry for the off topic. I'll stop there.
Enjoy your speakers - they seem like good ones!
Cheers,
91.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
Edits: 07/28/17
.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
Yeah, 30WPC would get those Lores goin' for sure.
Thanks for the tips.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
I thought we had this discussion.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
~$85 for Eminence's B102 shipped from Sweetwater
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LegendB102
you could run it without any filter, or with lowpass or perhaps a notch filter25 watts might move it pretty well - use more if you have it - speakers in this range will not work with a single 2A3
B102 spl French site
Eminence's published curve
The old version - less smooth, lower qts, went higher, had more mids and treble. A Druid sized pipe is about 1.3 cubic foot internal volume - so cutoff about 1.4 * higher than a cabinet twice the size.
indoors relative comparison - old B102 vs new spec B102
old spec B102 in fake Druid outdoors - that B102 now resides in
an old Karlson K12 type cabinet
typical sized cabinet - a forwards facing tweeter would be easy
Karlson Evangelist
Edits: 07/29/17 07/29/17 07/29/17 07/29/17
Right now I'm stuck with an 80WPC NAD integrated. The gain is so high that 9 o'clock on the volume knob is maxing the room and my ears out so there's little room for fine adjustment. I've tried in line attentuators but they seem to suck the life out of the music. I was thinking about an 8 WPC tube power amp with an additional volume control to fix this gain problem and also have an appropriate amount of watts.
Do you think 8WPC would be enough power for a 19x11.5x9 room? Max peak levels around 90db.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
does your NAD have pre=amp out amplifier in jacks with a jumper? if so - is there where you installed the attenuators ?
Karlson Evangelist
It does but I installed the attentuators separately in the DAC and vinyl chain. CD and TT are my only sources aside from a Sirius/XM tuner which ain't worth the trouble.
Maybe I should try that but it seems like it would do the same thing. I have a pair of -6db and -12db barrels.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
am not sure how you're hooked up but it might (??) sound better when the attenuator is between the preamplifier -out and power amplifier-input - rather than attenuator between the DAC and the preamp's high level input jacks - unless your DAC can overdrive the preamp-in
Karlson Evangelist
Edits: 07/29/17 07/29/17 07/29/17
I may try this tomorrow. Will let you know.
Thanks for the suggestion.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
might be - I have Heresy I with paper-oil caps running from an 8 WPC EL34 single ended amp - sound very sweet with Fritz Wunderlich, Jimmy Martin - I've not played large scale pieces on them.
(didn't realize you had a set of Lore until read the first post)
Karlson Evangelist
Wow, somebody who knows who Wunderlich is!
Got 4 or 5 LPs and some CD operas with him. One of the most gorgeous lyric tenors of any era.
Too bad he got drunk that time.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
yeah - bad fall - its a lot of fun to watch him too - one video with Kurt BI like a lot of the singers of the past - for tenors- Rosvaenge, Tauber, Wittrisch, Schock, Fillipeschi, Dermota, Peerce, Richard Lewis, Pears, Taccani, Pertile, Gigli, Nelepp,Kozlovsky and of course, Del Monaco
Patzak and Traxel were very good. Heinz Rehfuss singing Bach and Mahler - very good
in case you somehow aren't familiar with Armenian baritone Pavel Lisitsian Here's A GOODLY SAMPLE OF HIS SINGING
Karlson Evangelist
Edits: 07/29/17 07/29/17 07/29/17 07/29/17 07/29/17
Now that we've hijacked this thread.....LOL!
You're much more of a connoiseur of older singers than I am! I'm more with the singers I grew up listening to. Thanks for the Lisitsian. I had only read the name, never heard him. God knows the Prologue is hard enough in Italian. Impressive. My fav version is Cornell MacNeil from about 1959.
Given tenors, I usually go with the Italians but that's just me. Surprised you didn't include Corelli, my fav. Yeah, he could be a train wreck musically but wow!
Cheers!
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
lol - am too old and tired to type -Corelli was something else and really great - with videos available, he seemed very good on stage despite stage fright - for what little its worth, I like Mario Del Monaco's tone better (judging only from recordings). Gobbi was great - Tibbet - - Bob Merrill too - too - almost forgotten about Cornell McNeil as haven't listened for years. Protti is someone I've come to like very much - (best somersaults !)With Youtube, we can hear Ruffo, Granforte, and a bunch of once famous singers at a click
here's one older recording that should be fun
btw - those Lore sure give a lot of driver value for a low price
Karlson Evangelist
Edits: 07/30/17 07/30/17
Thanks for the link! Yeah, and Leonard Warren.
A close friend who had a nice career at the Met and elsewhere tells me the story that MacNeil used to torment Corelli, who was, of course, easily tormented. In the dressing room next to Franco, Mac would voalise to high C(!) and Corelli would get all bent and refuse to go on. At least until they placated him.
Yeah, the Lore is built like a tank with a very nice finish. Can't believe the 1K price and you don't have to search for a ton of watts to drive the things. So far, so good.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
Great story !!!! (-hope you are cataloging them for posterity) how 'bout Del Monaco ?? - did he come to the Met? - wonder how touchy he may have been ?? I've never been to a full live opera - not listened much for a long time eitherhere's someone way cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogWdRFrJmWM
Your Lore must have over $400 just in drivers - then add cabinet, labor - amazing pricing -
Karlson Evangelist
Edits: 07/31/17
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