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76.87.201.57
Just saw this...
Follow Ups:
I will add triple orange American Cheese to the package so you get your money worth and can stuff yourself full and buy $10k worth of Ozempic drug.
How come those poor Brits can afford $30k plastic phono stage is the right subject of discussion not the phono stage itself because it is almost given that it sounds better than any American phono stage ever conceived regardless of money.
parts.
In that price range of course.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
unlike the crooks making crappy phono stages and cheating people of hard earned cash for decades now.
Edits: 12/14/24
"...it sounds better than any American phono stage ever conceived regardless of money."
Of course it does! I'm sure UK based "What HiFi" agrees.
This could be segments of the original video. In any case it looks like a high school shop project in there!
View YouTube Video
Years ago, I repaired a Groove phonostage due to a fried tantalum capacitor (looked like a burnt popcorn kernel. Interesting that the failure turned out being a similar tantalum capacitor. I was also not impressed with the quality inside, and the removal of all the labels on the ICs used. Not sure why the use of tantalum electrolytic caps.
David
and saw the original video this morning. All I can saw is WOW! I can't believe how bad the inside looks. This looks like a prototype and like a young kid in High School for a class project built it. To charge that kind of money and build that!
The Repair guy was awesome and did a great job repairing the Phono Preamp and case.
For that kind of cash, way more thought and time should have been put into this phono preamp. He would have been better putting metal shield covers over all the pcb's. If I was the owner of that unit I would be so pissed but I would never spend that kind of money any single piece of audio gear.
And people give Schiit a bad rap for the looks of their gear, but look inside and they are well thought out and designed. I rather suppose them that someone like TE.
Never heard of these folks before this, and I damned sure would not consider buying plastic crap from them after this.
Seriously?!? For plastic?
Another ten generations and the world villages and prison's genotype imprints will wash out from the hereditary mental traits of the populace. Maybe.
but plastic held together with spit and good wishes is always going to be no more that.
And seriously, what other reason is there for removing identifying marks from parts? Is he afraid of somebody making $100 clones in China and selling them on eBay? Good luck threatening them with his solicitor.
Clearly he's free to cobble together whatever and sell it for whatever some unsuspecting fool will pay, but I won't be among his clientele.
and replacing it with color codes. Even on confidential schematics there is only Audio Research code for the parts so you cannot source them from anybody else. The potted modules hiding the essential parts of the circuits were common feature in many products in the past. It's not an issue today with digital technology. Good luck with multipin replacement of SMD integrated circuits and multilayer circuit repairs.
You still use plastic lid on your table don't you? I just bought an old Goldmund studio and despite the shippers best efforts and factory box it arrived demolished. $360 they want for that piece of plastic in the shop nearby.
Here , buy yourself Lampizator Dac everybody on this forum loves
Edits: 12/14/24
"and replacing it with color codes."Those are called resistors! How to learn and memorize the color code from 0 - 9:
Bad, Boys, Rape, Our, Young, Girls, But, Violet, Gives, Willingly corresponds to:
Black 0, Brown 1, Red 2, Orange 3, Yellow 4, Green 5, Blue 6, Violet 7, Gray 8, White 9. The third color band just before Gold or Silver is the number of Zeros to add.
Last band is often Gold=5% or Silver=10% which is the value tolerance +/-
Many tighter tolerance 1% metal film resistors typically have numerical markings on them. I didn't see any values or colors rubbed off in ARC gear.
Someday I'll tell you about ELI the ICE man ;-)
"Even on confidential schematics there is only Audio Research code for the parts so you cannot source them from anybody else."
I have personally worked on some ARC gear. I called them and they sent me schematics. And no mystical top secret components with part numbers sanded off in their amps or preamps. Same for my very heavy Manley tube monoblocks. They encouraged me to make a couple minor repairs and even sent me a schematic. No magic components inside with part numbers rubbed off. This is in stark contrast to paranoid TE who thinks he is audio engineering's gift to the world.
From my work on the ARC VT-100mkII
Edits: 12/14/24
term in awhile. :)
ELI the ICE man. Voltage leads Current in an Inductor, Current leads Voltage in a Capacitor. Voltage leads Current by 90 degrees in an Inductor and Voltage lags Current by 90 degrees in a Capacitor.
It's true that the partial motivation to hide the origin of parts may have been to supply critical parts with tight tolerances so they would last in the circuit.
DNM audio plastic gear I have has all transistors and regulators markings erased. Goldmund stuff I had, had magic encapsulated modules. French Audio Mattiere tube amp and preamp I have also has magic encapsulated modules.
TE could be the best phono amp designer alive (who knows but it's possible) Since the designs do not appear to use a magic dust and unobtaninum parts they just beg to be ripped off and cloned.
Of course there are other audio brands that sand off component part numbers and I'm not fond of them either. You mentioned ARC and I proved that ARC does not do this and neither does Manely. Some brands are transparent and supportive in helping their customers while others are the opposite.
But that's not the main point. The point is that TE bullied and threatened "Mend it Mark" with legal action for posting a YouTube educational repair video of a TE phono preamp. Who does that? A paranoid twit. And no one has sympathy for those. Just look at all the negative comments on YouTube and here in the Asylum.
There's a Right to Repair movement taking place and gaining momentum in the US.
"Right to repair refers to the concept that end users of technical, electronic or automotive devices should be allowed to freely repair these products. Some notable aspects of a product include:
The device should be constructed and designed in a manner that allows repairs to be made easily;
- Repair providers should be able to access original spare parts and necessary tools at fair market conditions. Parts and tools needed to make repairs, should be available to everyone, including consumers.
- Manuals and design schematics should be freely available and help consumers know how to repair their devices.
Look at the active elements of regulator circuits of ARC devices, FET transistors in input, output stages of audio circuits.
Right to repair is fine but why repair when you will buy the same device from Aliexpress for less than repair cost and looking better than original? The times are simply different.
why repair when you will buy the same device from Aliexpress for less than repair cost and looking better than original?
you've forgotten that they don't just drop in any transistor or tube acquired. All are tested, grouped for performance and some are rejected.
Buying from Aliexpress provides zero quality control. Likewise, I buy tubes from trusted vendors who test and cull their inventory for quality as well.
Absolutely correct. The point was related to Abe claiming that ARC does not hide their components identity whatsoever because he was able to change blown resistor with company's help. It is not true.
Whatever justification ARC uses the identity of critical components is removed, replaced by the color codes and marked on the schematics with factory generated coded system. Only ARC can supply the parts at appropriately inflated prices and you're not knowing what are you getting but you're at least able to get it.
Oh well.
...and you're not knowing what are you getting but you're at least able to get it.
Feel free to ignore the reality of getting hand tested and matched devices.
At this level, most customers do care about quality - even if you don't!
I can test and match my own devices if I know which devices to buy. If I'm forced to buy ARC matched devices for X 20 the retail price (which ARC being an OEM does not pay) because they don't reveal the information than you can't claim they share all the info about product which is what Abe claims.
Edits: 12/17/24
I can test and match my own devices if I know which devices to buy.
Buy dozens to get your best couple. Great plan!
It's not about that. I'm happy to pay ARC for their matched devices.
I want you to admit -
Yes, indeed Audio Research does hide the origin of the parts, erases the OEM designations , replaces it with color codes and on schematics with ARC factory generated internal codes so only ARC can supply those critical parts. ABe is not correct.That's all I want. If you're not able to admit which you try really hard not to then I pass
PS. hand matching the devices does not require from ARC spending time of expensive work force to remove markings on the elements and replace them with the color codes does it?
Edits: 12/17/24
Because you're a nice chap (overall :)
because he gets what he wants from them and erase the markings because he does not want to influence buying decisions of people who are obsessing about the latest and greatest and won't buy an old tech even if it hits them in the forehead.
You're grasping at plastic straws here.
I have the slightly older combo amp/preamp and the cables set made out of the plastic straws
It's not just the plastic but did you see the poor construction quality inside AND the fact that TE sands and scrapes part numbers off certain off-the-shelf electronic components. Sad.
Edits: 12/14/24
Yep.
If it was such an "exclusive" bit of kit, why isn't the remarkable quality of the piece parts emphasized rather than obfuscated? Answer: Because they're cheap, commodity items with nothing special about them except the grade-school science fair way they're implemented. And they don't want you to know how badly you're being fleeced. That's why.
Never buy a used car in the rain, and never buy HiFi gear without looking under the hood.
of equipment.
I hate playing the devil's advocate since the most I spent on phono pre is $200 plus my sweat and burned fingers, but you guys are way beyond mark on this having been in the hobby for so long. You should at least know by now what counts and what's not. It wasn't that long ago that a small amp from Japan containing car amplifier chip costing $1.75 wiped the floor with a lot of thick faced audio junk sporting the best components.
.
nt
gear to keep you INVOLVED in listening to music for many, many years.
In a VERY good way.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
and a wrong one. Cheap Schit sounds like a chip shit. The more expensive the schit the better shit it is, but it is no longer such a bang for a buck and other choices exist.
"For that kind of cash, way more thought and time should have been put into this phono preamp."But look at all the effort they put into their polished marketing text! That has to count for something in the world of pricey audiophile electronics.
Let's see. Hand selected off-the-shelf ICs (with part numbers sanded off) and inexpensive 3-terminal IC voltage regulators in their custom internal power supply for ~$30,000 USD. OK
Edits: 12/12/24 12/12/24
Makes reading this more "interesting."
Gsquared
"Think about it-the last three amplifiers I've reviewed have been the $80,000 Burmester 909 MK5 power amplifier, the $53,200 True Life Audio TSI-300 integrated amplifier-both powerhouses-and the Allnic Audio T-1500 Mk. II integrated, which is amazing because it costs less than $10K."
This sort of thing is what is killing our hobby...
That's $1000 per watt.
All the really good (reviewed) amps cost $1000 per watt.
But, solid gold knobs will still cost you extra.
I don't see any problem? Just don't read audio rags. I don't (anymore).
Wasn't familiar with him or his products before, now I am.
NOT in any sort of positive way, either.
That's a great video, LR is... on it...
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
...if Tom Evans is taking lessons from the fellow over at Tekton.
Here's a link to a follow up posted by Mend It Mark who posted the original video.
I saw the original video before it was taken down. Really interesting to see how Mark reverse engineered such a complex piece of gear, especially since all the values were sanded off the components.
I don't doubt that the phono amp sounded great but it was eye opening to see what a kludgy mess it was inside.
The Tom Evans segment in your YouTube posts starts around 5m15s.Here's a very recent follow up. The video portion loses signal for a while but it comes back.
Edits: 12/10/24
,
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Sold mine as I saw this coming
Amp and phono 15 yrs ago +/-. Cant remember model
For those of us who do not do YouTube.
Kal, this is what was posted via the YouTube and apparently what fstein sold.
P.S. This guy is well known worldwide for his Mac repair videos and his support for right-to-repair laws. Apple (and other brands) must now make parts and technical documents available for 3rd parties to more easily perform repairs.
Edits: 12/11/24
I still don't know what it is all about.
A British guy has an electronics repair YT channel and someone sent him this Tom Evans pre-amp to fix. I am not sure of the exact symptoms but it received a fair bit of damage during shipping.
The video was an interesting watch, figuring out how to open the case and then seeing inside a vista that does not say 'this is worth 25k'. A lot of small boards wired together. Anyway the guy reverse engineers it, finds the original problem and fixes that and then he does a good job fixing up the cracked and broken acrylic case. And he is a very affable bloke so I enjoyed watching. Now, it seems, that video has been taken down by a copyright infringement, YT won't explain - but, presumably Tom Evans is behind the complaint as he won't want people to see how not-worth 25k that preamp is and, by extension, any of his other products.
Edits: 12/11/24
The story is that several people who bought the statement preamp from Evans based on the sound of this unworthy plastic now are put in the position of cuckholds by Mike the fixer.
The customer who originally bought it (for unknown price from unstated source) sent it to Evans shop for repair. The case (which is not as cheap as it may seem ) got damaged in the transit due to poor packing which is typical for Brits. They don't usually ship anything. Because the preamp is a luxury item the price for repair was high (as expected).After all 20 cents resistor change in that Audio Research "pride and Joy " have costed me $656 .
The customer refused to pay and asked Tom Evans to send the unit to Mark the youtuber fixer. Now ,Evans must be in the age bracket of AA SYLUM dwellers so he had no idea what he was getting into.
Mark the fixer reverse engineered the circuit of his statement phono stage and a Milk Cow of his little business and posted everything on that Youtube channel making a fool of an old Evans and dicks of his customers.
Now you guys who supposed to know better add to the choir of online idiots
because most probably you're on the same level of consciousness. Pickup trucks and Mac Mansions mentality is directing your audio purchases which results in the shit of your systems in general.
For that matter, exposés are nothing new. What exactly did Mark the Fixer say that wasn't true?
Apart from those with more money than brains, (of which that are many apparently), we should all know that SOTA phono preamps can be had for well under a grand. But if you want to buy an ARC or Macintosh at least you get something properly hung together.
I feel sorry neither Evans nor this customers; it's Mark and/or whoever else was bullied to pull the video that I feel sorry for.
Dmitri Shostakovich
Evans should have embroiled his Tupperware plastic boxes with diamonds and Sapphires for customers of such depth like you guys so you can feel the money worth. Also he should include a monthly ticket to a Burger King and one Disneyland trip.
nt
Dmitri Shostakovich
Do you know realities of a one man show artisanal production shop of some world wide recognition who apparently does not have a desire to make masses happy?
By the time he makes that one crappy "statement" product he can probably make five cheaper ones or thirty of his budget ones. If the shop takes a repair job than it doesn't assemble units for sale.
Part of the benefit of being rich and in possession of almost unlimited resources is ability to spend the money on things we like without concern of a price tag.
(Methinks) There are very few people who offer something special in any field. I have no experience with Evans products whatsoever, but he may be one of them at least to some people. But it is offending to people like you because in your opinion everybody deserves that quality and it should cost max $1k and if you can't have it nobody else should have it either.
The problem of Americans expressed in threads like "wretched excess" is that as long as they were kings of the hills and their checkbooks could afford the top line of the consumer goods they were not concerned with that excess. Times changed and they can't get used to the fact the top of the line is beyond their reach.
I would never remotely have considered any Tom Evans product.
When I first became interested in "hi-fi" 50+ years ago, the ostensible reason was to achieve high fidelity , (accurate), sound. My experience since then has demonstrated to my ears that contemporary high-accuracy equipment sounds the best.
If SOTA accuracy is what you want you can get a phono preamp or preamp for ~$1000 and an amp for ~$2000-$3000. Once you get into delusional euphonics rather than accuracy, there is not limit.
As far as phono preamps go, I bought my last vinyl disc about 30 year ago; I last listened to a LP perhaps 15 years ago. Vinyl is very far from SOTA hi-fi sound today.
Dmitri Shostakovich
Who accurately reproduce orchestra from contemporary budget equipment using two boxes outputting the sound.
It does make life easier but audio hobby is not about that. I can get the same result you're getting buying contemporary car. No need to spend on home audio
he's a numbers guy focused upon irrelevant metrics.
The current hobbyists are 10% personal euphonics vs. accuracy and 90% self-delusion.
Dmitri Shostakovich
when I engaged in dealing and wheeling, "tradin upgradin" and now I only buy "objects" which are interesting design wise or are a spit in the face of a checkbook audiophile type.
I emailed Tom Evans asking him about his side version. He said that although he was irked by the light in which his device was presented and the fact that they were "only" getting 10K of the retail price and dealer was getting 15k but the flack of 25k price tag outrage was only theirs, the real reason he requested the takedown of the video was that Mend it Mark after he created that reverse engineered service manual has made a file out of it and started to sell that file on a side for 240 pounds each to interested parties. That's what folk heroes of this type usually do and it only requires a glimpse of Man it Mark to know it.
You conveniently forgot the legal threats and bullying by Tom Evans directed at YouTuber "Mend it Mark". He runs an instructional channel on electronics repair. It's also very cheesy that Tom Evans sands and scrapes part numbers off of several 'off-the-shelf' electronic components used in his products.
This thing is blowing up all over YouTube with several "Mend it Mark" supporters reposting and even commenting under Tom Evans equipment review videos.
Who is this "Mike the fixer" in your first sentence ?
Legal threats are absolutely validated and youtube influencer ( Mark, Mike - little difference) should be left with nothing but underwear after this is over.
The plebeians expressing their rage ( because they can't afford the phono so nobody else has a right to afford it ) can suck it up
.
On this price level but so typical in US.
a manufacturer is uncomfortable showing their gear butt nekid.
ARC uses acrylic covers on some models as part of the electrical design. This from their website:
Always agreed with this, and particularly at the prices this stuff commands. Makes me wonder, what are they hiding? A couple of examples are the original Merrill Veritas NC1200 amps, which were probably like every other NC1200 amp in any meaningful way, and currently the expensive sand cast aluminum Cinnamon Galle DAC, to name but two.
Edits: 12/21/24
nt
see now its a Tom Evans.
.
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