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In Reply to: RE: how is it possible to put together an expensive system that sounds " meh " ? posted by trioderob on April 15, 2023 at 07:45:04
Compound that trend across amp/digital/hi-tech speaker materials result in a ready ability to expose/emphasize flaws in both system and rooms.
I'm not pining for dull or nostalgic sound to be the benchmark either.
It may be my eyes but the big shiny metal boxes and drivers seem to be the ones that no matter the $$$$, are nearly as steely sounding as they look. Damn accurate, damn uncomfortable fairly quickly.
Follow Ups:
To the degree a loudspeaker is accurate, meaning it's reproduction of the input signal without error, the greater the number of generations one can pass a signal and still be "listenable".
They don't do "generation loss tests" with loudspeakers because each pass highlights what's wrong and it's unusual for a speaker to go more than 3 generations vs electronics which pass many generations.
I've never done that type of testing with a loudspeaker.
If emphasis and faults can be found after couple generations, could help refine the hard to refine.
What conditions (like test environment to reduce room interactions), what level of quality for recording (tape vs hard drive, mic type and it quality), what is the frequency limits due to measurement (like bass below 200 needs to be spliced in vs above 200 type deal)
Any docs or websites that might fill in details without having to bug all here or that dont need 10 years of experience in reading doctoral thesis skills?
I can see benefit, but also could envision details required to implement the test correctly could be very specific and detailed.
Hi
Well the Generation loss test was very popular in the days of recording tape for the same reasons. We started doing this at work out of curiosity as much as anything else about 18 years ago.
What we did was use a measurement mic and a 24/96 recorder.
We put the speaker on top of a ladder with the microphone at a meter.
We played a section of music (parts of several tracks edited together) and recorded the mic signal (and in the beginning we also made a gen loss copy of the music track but after 5 generations there was no detectable difference in the direct audio so we stopped that and just did the speakers).
Now days i would skip the MI recorder and get a Motu m2 or other good usb interface and a decent measurement mic. IF you have a set of good headphones, there is something important you can discover too.
They did an interview for a recording magazine at work and some of it was edited into a video that goes into the gen loss test and some on how we hear.
Hope this video makes sense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tE8yVtw1-o&t=2s
Up high outside "chamber" and normal mic requirements and distance.
Will give a shot , thanks for idea/ info
Is that "accuracy" or is that coloration leaning towards lean and bright spectral balance? If a system is accurate and the subjective result is antiseptic then it would stand to reason that the original recording was "antiseptic."
I believe that "accurate" is an idealistic quality that almost never occurs in reality...... (And whenever it does, hardly anyone would realize it.) And too many of us think it somehow equates to an "analytical" or "antiseptic" sonic presentation.
Edits: 04/15/23
I will confess that at times I generously use the term accurate to really describe overly forward and edgy.
I am trying not to offend possible owners of gear and their musical preferences.
"It may be my eyes but the big shiny metal boxes and drivers seem to be the ones that no matter the $$$$, are nearly as steely sounding as they look. "
Most of these metal boxes are also available in black - for a less steely sound ;-)
enn tee
all the best,
mrh
I have clear memories from age 17 when my system consisted of Technics SL110/SME3009/Ortofon M15, H-K Citation 11, Crown D-150 driving double Advents. The dealer who sold me the electronics lent me an Audio Research SP-3a for the weekend.
Wow.
The opening shakers in Do It Again sounded more lifelike - a certain "steeliness" was replaced with a more transparent and delicate voice.
I'm enjoying an SP20 today. :)
I have several Steely Dan but these have been in rotation lately at my place:
Nt
I love the band. I enjoy listening to their recordings. Aja is on balance pretty good quality of a recording. But none of their recordings would make my "demo" list unless I am demoing how a system sounds with a regular recording as opposed to an audiophile recording.
.
Gsquared
Mark, I only heard Steely Dan once today at Axpona and only one room was playing orchestra music, a room with KHorns. Must were playing insipid audiophile music, most with no human voice. In one room the guy said he was putting on a tune from West Side story and I foolishly hoped it was music from the 1961 movie. Nope, it was horseshit audiophile West Side Story full of "air" and a rinky-dink arrangement. The most impressive speakers were $1700 a pair JBLs with a vinyl wrap finish played with "regular guy" electronics. Not the best but very impressive when compared to the mega buck systems, some of which the JBLs bettered. They made me say "What the fuck..."
I just finished watching West Side Story, it sounded great over my Altec 890Cs. As it should, right?
enn tee
all the best,
mrh
Enjoyed the chuckle
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