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RE: Interesting

Hello Kerr,

You asked me if I ever actually tried this experiment? In regards to my statement of when I've said one amp makes the backround singers sound further back than another amp did. I've had other naysayers make the same claim Pat D is now making, i.e. a difference in FR being accountable for that effect. I don't understand why people would think I'd lie when I say things like this (I know you're not one of them) I'm not an audio manufacturer or dealer so I have absolutely no vested interest in the outcome of these things one way or another. As I stated strangely enough not one of these naysayers could ever replicate the FR difference they insist is the cause of these soundstaging effect with an equalizer. I've been present 3 different times when people attempted to replicate this FR difference.

1) The first time was back in the mid 70's with an Audio Control Equalizer & Real Time Analyzer. Admittedly this audio system was IMO mid-fi at best. IIRC in addition the the Audio Control gear the other components were typical japanese types, Pioneer receiver & turntable, along with Technics "supposedly" top-of-the-line speaker. Personally I thought the system sucked with at best a soundstage the went from one speaker to another. Not beyond either speaker at all and no depth whatsoever. I believe this guy was simply parroting something he read from Stereo Review, because everything was Julian Hirsch this Julian Hirsch that etc. Needless to say no matter what he did the rear singers didn't move forward or backward with this setup and his constant tweaking of the Audio Control units. I left unconvinced and unimpressed.

2) The second time was in an audio salon. I was actually quite surprised with this place because I called to get directions from E. Hartford to Waterbury Connecticut (about 35-40mins away) and as soon as I sat down I got a lecture about all wires being snake oil. When I mentioned to the salesperson how important soundstaging was to me I was told that unless I was listening through dipole speakers, soundstaging depth was just a result audiophilia nervousa or a FR anomaly caused by poor quality "audiophile" amps. That's why we always use pro-audio components here he said. I scoffed at those statement. I had never visited or even heard of an objectivist audio salon before, but here it was. So I requested that the salesman prove this statement he made was true. This time the setup consisted of Crown DL-2 preamp, Crown PS2 poweramp, Crown EQ2 equalizer with a technics turntable and Klipsch La Scala speakers! Once again I thought the system sucked with a soundstage the went bearly from one speaker to another. Not beyond either speaker at all and no depth whatsoever. When this salesman couldn't make the singers come forward or backward with his Crown EQ2 equalizer he made some derogatory remark about audiophile crap and how I'm imagining things. Needless to say I left, not convinced that this is a FR issue or that this salesman knew what he was talking about.

3) The third time was an honest to goodness audiophile system. I met this man in Stereo Shop in Hartford, Connecticut. We talked audio and eventually he mentioned owning a Cello Audio Suite preamp, Cello Audio Palette equalizer, Cello Audio Duet 350 Amplifier & Cello Stradivari Grand Master speakers. This was without a doubt the most expensive audio system I had ever seen and it sounded wonderful. I mentioned to this man how I've told other people that with some amps the backround singers sound further back than with other amps. He agreed with me that this was a trait of soundstage depth. I then mentioned that some said this was strictly a FR issue. Well the man said, few is any equalizers are better than the Palette equalizer so lets play around and see what happens. After playing with the FR for over an hour via the Palette (and he had an RTA too) all he could accomplish was to make the rear singers get softer or louder! They never moved forward or back. IMHO if that man with that EQ and RTA couldn't move the singers I doubt many, if any others could with simply adjusting FR!

So no Kerr I do NOT believe this is a FR issue. Neither I, nor anyone else can tell you which amp is replicating the performance most correctly, whether it's the amp that makes the singers sound further back or whether it's the amp that makes the singers sound closer to the front. To know this would require someone who was actually present when the original event was recorded by the recording engineer. Personally I don't believe it's a FR issue and I prefer a deeper soundstage if all else is equal.

You're 100% correct though when you say the choice is up to the individual and you're also correct in believing I've made my choice.

Thetubeguy1954


Edits: 09/24/09
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