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In Reply to: RE: Mono cartridge vs. stereo cartridge.... posted by analog guy on April 10, 2008 at 16:09:15
posts (classics, btw) between he and Fretless might give a greater sense of his negative views toward this particular cart, and how those views might skew his perceptions. Also, his admiration of the digitally recorded lp is well known-an admiration others don't share.
Follow Ups:
I think you are mistaken about my "admiration of the digitally recorded LP." I own several digitally recorded LPs and they are far from being my favorites. Of course, I would guess that most LPs are digitally recorded these days; I haven't bought a new LP in many years.
Now, as far as the XV-1 is concerned, mine was a dull and lifeless cartridge. I thought that maybe I had gotten a bad apple, but after hearing analog guy's CD-R recording of his XV-1s mono, its sonic quality reminded me immediately of my old XV-1.
Best regards,
John Elison
'a digital recording of an analog lp'. But I'm pretty sure you knew that.
As for the XV-1, I'm not calling into question your feelings about the cart, and god knows you're entitled to them. I'm just saying you may be, subconsciously, a bit predisposed to dislike any music played with it. As any of us might be with regards to components we've made a sonic decision about. However, for the record, I for one have not heard any DV cart that was 'dull and lifeless'. In fact, far from it.
But then, that's just me.
john didn't know which cartridge he was listening to until after he sent me his opinions.
a small really really weird consensus is building.
I don`t care much about music.
What I like is sounds. ~ Dizzy Gillespie
I think what you meant to say was that you didn't reveal which cartridge was which. On the other hand, you stated there were only two cartridges, one a mono XV-1s and the other a stereo Magic Diamond. It really was no contest to determine which was which.
When you play a mono LP with a stereo cartridge, the music is in mono but the crackles and pops are in stereo. With a mono cartridge, everything is in mono. It is easy to hear the difference and there was never any question in my mind which cartridge was which.
Furthermore, the sonic character of the XV-1s was quite reminiscent of the XV-1 that I used to own. I still have a number of recordings made from that cartridge. To my ears it sounded constrained in the highs and less musical than the Magic Diamond.
Best regards,
John Elison
and I mistook the 4K dyna for the MD. I knew there was a $4K cart in play and just gave it the better sound vote based on that knowledge. My mistake.
If I was me I would sell the dyna and buy a Denon 102.
Really, why pay $4k for a cart that sounds no better than a $200 one? Actaully the cheaper one sounds better? Just putting it out there. Of course I only heard all this thru a CDR ...
I don`t care much about music.
What I like is sounds. ~ Dizzy Gillespie
i'm not sure about the money thing and can't (or won't attempt to) answer the "value" question for anyone else...
but at the end of the day, this is all just fun and games. it's a hobby.
to be honest, i enjoy music on my car radio, my ipod, my stereo at home, or even streamed over the internet at low-rez. music is music.
i presume we're all just attempting to get the most out of what we've got -- and maybe to get the most for less $$. who wouldn't want either of those things?
i don't take any of this too seriously -- but i do like it when people compare apples to apples and only speak about what they know. (e.g., i can't -- yet -- speak of the soundsmith retipped 103-variant.)
i think you compared a magic diamond to a zu 103. perhaps the zu 103 is better -- i don't know, haven't heard one (someone send me one!). but until we've heard both, we simply don't know and everything is just conjecture.
it's probably "understood", but perhaps if you stated things with a caveat of "i suspect" rather than in an "it is so" manner, the good observations you make would be less likely to be lost. personally, when i see absolute statements -- particularly when there is minimal basis for such -- i tune out.
we have some conclusions that people may draw from the CD-R. we also know that a magic diamond is a 103-variant, and that some variants of the 103 far outperform the non-modded version. (or, likely, mate better to a tonearm.) as for where all the variants rank........ who knows, and who really cares? only those who want to feel like they paid a premium and therefore bought something "better" might care, just as those who feel like they have a "giant-killer".
to me? it doesn't really matter.
happy listening everyone!
-out
"i think you compared a magic diamond to a zu 103"
i did by way of looking at it on the web, knowing what my cartridge sounded like, never claimed to have heard the Zu...
"but until we've heard both, we simply don't know and everything is just conjecture. "
I agree.
I think you mischaracterize my comments a wee bit. Now maybe I will try a bit of that. You say you don't really care ... but maybe you have a grudge since I seem to go on about how the cheaper Zu sounds better than your $4K Dyna. You claim I am on a "quest" and "stirring the pot" to devalue my comments. S'ok. You should get over it, though.
I don`t care much about music.
What I like is sounds. ~ Dizzy Gillespie
and you know what i own re: cartridges.
i'm happy to get a zu 103 or a ss-modded 103, i'm happy to do so. i just like to test such things in controlled environments. as far as i know, i'm the only one who actually put together such a test. as flawed as it was, it did the best attempt to keep variables constant and make music available to folks to do their own evaluation in the comfort of their own home.
while i've read about the zu 103 and it sounds interesting, i can't say whether it is the same as anything else. maybe it's better! :)
better for less money is always good.
(for the record, in another forum you did come right out and say that certain items were better than a magic diamond, and you had not heard one. you might be right -- but you just didn't have any basis for that claim. from the outside, it looked like you were anxious to attack the people who spent large sums of money on something -- to prove them wrong. i suspect your goal was really to show how big performance might be available for less, but it got a little heated and objectivity was lost.)
ANYway... when i said "i don't care", i meant that i don't really care what others think -- my own listening matters most. however, i do care about blanket statements being made when there's no (stated) basis for doing so.
really -- i do think you have good insight. i think it would help me out (to not run any risk of mischaracterizing your statements) if you did note such things as "the magic diamond, which, from reading, seems similar to the zu 103"...instead of calling one the other. you might be right, you might be wrong. why not leave it open to the reader or listener?
i mean this in a respectful manner. i realize tone doesn't always come across properly in an electronic form.
If you're referring to the Audiogon "forum", my take was that Pat was simply reacting to those who dismissed outright (and haughtily, it seemed) that there was no way that the Magic Diamond began it's life as a Denon. I could almost hear them snort their disgust at such an imbecilic statement. In that context, I didn't see Pat as being out of line. In general, I thought he (as you say above) was more angry at the manufacturers for what on the surface appears to be fraud than at any one poster.
But you're right, 'tone is lost in electronic communication', "objectivity was lost", and in the end we'll never really know since, true to form, Audiogon released that thread to the ether. Audiogon "forums" are a joke.
BTW, your tone is a model for non-confrontational discourse, dissent without rancor. Good job. I'll have to try it myself sometime.
that's easy to do. that is a nice easy way to put it. I rarely put things that way ...
and in that other forum it was not hard to lose objectivy. You see, it seems plain and simple that if you take a 103 and mod the way I have seen it done then it's characteristics will be similar across the category. I do not think that is a far stretch. It is a surmise but not a baseless one.
We are talking apples to aples and refining apples not apples to oranges.
I don`t care much about music.
What I like is sounds. ~ Dizzy Gillespie
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