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131.191.24.19
In Reply to: RE: I like "Tusk" better than "Rumours." posted by John-from Seattle on October 08, 2018 at 06:26:28
BTW, played my copy of Pretzel Logic last night and I think I got a middling copy as I had first played one side while putting dinner together so wasn't paying close attention to it and later decided to flip the record over after dinner, sat down to listen and realized something was off. Rolled off highs, kind of dark. I had the mono switch still on from the night before when I played Kind of Blue by Miles Davis (an original 6-eye mono pressing), so once I returned to stereo, it helped but the treble was decidedly thin, the bass not as muffled but still not like say, Aja.
Then I put on Can't Buy a Thrill, MUCH better sounding. Pretzel Logic had a darkish sound to it and lacking dynamics to some extent.
Anyway, fun playing some early Dan last evening.
Follow Ups:
I knew you would recognize Pink Houses. ;-) Heck, it's been used on tv commercials, iirc.
That's a shame you can't enjoy Thriller. It's truly impressive, a must have demo disc. Steve Lukather plays guitar and bass on 3 of the tracks.
On the Dan, yep! the earlier stuff is not quite as well recorded and somewhat of a mixed bag of results but the music is still great. They peaked on recording prowess with Aja and Gaucho, in my opinion. The reason?? Bernie Grundman mastered Aja and Bob Ludwig mastered Gaucho. I needn't say more.
Back to Fleetwood Mac for a moment... Back in the early 70's, circa 1972 or 73, I bought Bare Trees. It's ok, not great but ok.
Another early LP I still have is Ten Years After - A Space in Time. This one sounds quite good, even today. A lot of acoustic guitar that sounds really good.
Not saying I won't pick up Thriller, hopefully cheaply for the few songs that are good and stand the test of time. I was I think 19 when that album hit the airwaves and got played to death, but that WAS over 30 years ago now though.
But as an artist, he got all weird once he hit the big time with that album.
I found a live FM album, Jumping at Shadows on Varrack that was issued in 1985 but was recorded live in Boston in 1969 and yes, a Peter Green rendition of the 'Mac and includes their well known song of that period, Oh Well. I played it finally 3 years ago and it's quite good actually.
I actually have Cricklewood Green by TYA for the song, Love Like a Man. Sounds quite good for when it was released, 1970.
Another album I enjoy is the very first LP by It's a Beautiful Day, their self titled debut. I have the original 2-eye pressing and for being recorded in 1969, it's wonderfully done.
Just think! We haven't even gotten to Jazz and Classical records yet.
LOL!
LOL... Yes, I'm a sucker for classic post war Jazz, and for a long time, up the cool/bosa nova and modal period but initially didn't like Fusion and later Free jazz. Now just don't get me started on smooth jazz though... It aint jazz in my opinion.
Gotta agree that most Jazz releases are wonderful. I do have 2 modern UMG/Blue Note reissues in my stable. Blue Train by John Coltrane and Somethin' Else by Cannonball Adderley which sound quite good on fairly heavy weight vinyl and are clean, though not quite as good as an original BN copy I have of Blue Train, though it's badly trashed with multiple scratches all over on both sides. :-( but it is also an early 60's issue too.
Then I have an OJC reissue of Soultrane on the Prestige label that is, I think a 2015 reissue that is definately feels pretty authentic to the original, even the vinyl is heavy and thick like ana original Prestige likely was when this album was issued in 1958. It, too, sounds great.
Not a huge classical fan but do have a few in my stable but rarely play them though.
hehe..!!OK, so on jazz, I came at it from the early to mid 70's, by attending a university that has one of the 2 best music schools in the country. We had tons of musicians on campus and a lot of entertainment visiting. David Baker headed up the jazz studies. Prior to going to university, I was only interested in Rock, RnR, Blues, etc. After getting exposed to jazz on campus and the record stores, I initially gravitated to fusion. At a small club in town, I saw Gary Burton, Pat Metheny, Brian Auger, Ralph Towner, Paul Winter, Chick Corea, Mose Allison, Larry Coryell, Weather Report, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Thelonius Monk and others.
Today, I love listening to Coltrane, Kenny Burrell, Miles, Monk and many others and YES! There are some glorious recordings.
We'll touch on classical a bit later.
Edits: 10/08/18
I was exposed to Jazz early in life, like 4th grade in the mid 70's when attending a concert at what would later be my HS as I had 3 older sisters in attendance there with 2 in band, 2 in choir, though one would do both band and choir.
Anyway, the school has/had a Jazz band and it was that first time I heard them play that I discovered I loved jazz. Not sure how but I just loved the post war jazz period, Bop, Hard Bop, Post Bop etc. But, I'm coming around to Fushion and Free Jazz now that I'm considerably older.
I did end up with a Weather Report album, I think Heavy Weather is it.
My middle sister's best friend had an older brother that was heavily into Jazz and had a substantial Jazz collection and even taught it so I got exposed to some of the big names like Monk, Mingus, Coltrane, Davis etc.
It would take until the 1990's before I would begin to collect Jazz in any way or form, but not necessarily via LP, but by recording borrowed albums onto tape and today, I have several Jazz on vinyl, some reissues, others being original, both in mono and stereo.
I have not been to a jazz concert though.
"I have not been to a jazz concert though." You need to remedy this!
Cool story on your jazz enlightenment. Interesting to hear how we come at it differently.
In my current LP listening rotation are:
Mingus - Ah Um
Mingus - Nostalgia in Times Square/The Immortal 1959 Sessions
Monk Big Band & Quartet In Concert
Kenny Burrell - Midnight Blue
Kenny Burrell - Blue Lights
Illinois Jacquet - Swings the Thing
Illinois Jacquet - Bottoms Up
I DO have Ah Um on the Columbia Legacy CD but would MUCH prefer it on vinyl.
I do have an original, I think 1962 RCA Victor pressing of Tijuana Moods that Mingus did, a great album at that.
I also have Take Ten by Paul Desmond, both a US RCA Victor release on the Dynagroove stereo, and a Japanese version of the same. Good album too.
I have 2 Monk LP's, one is an early Aughts copy of Straight No Chaser on Columbia (standard issue) that I paid less than $20 for at the time that sounds pretty good and a nice, mint copy of Criss Cross on the 2-eye label and a Several Brubeckm most original late 50's early 60's recordings on the 6-eye label, and of course some Mulligan, Jeru, Mulligan Quartet and Night Lights all on vinyl, though Jeru is a Columbia Special products pressing but still sounds good.
Oh! That Mingus Tijuana Moods would be a keeper! Your copy... Stereo or Mono?
I've got the Complete Blue Note Recordings box set of Sidney Bechet on Mosaic. It spans from the 30's through to the 50's. This set came out in 1985... Pretty amazing Dixieland jazz.
I've also got a boxset called, The Verve Collectors Item, a 4 disc set from Japan, circa 1983. All mono. Basie, Getz, Powell, Wilson, Krupa, Kessel et al.
I actually had to check, it's mono, of course. :-) They seem to find me, LOL. I could not recall if it was, or was not.
I think it's an original, original pressing and a mighty fine pressing too. The top of the cover is almost totally split and has some surface wear, but the LP itself is quite nice.
As to Mosaic, I have heard those are supposed to be quite good sounding, but now are hard to fine and pricey though if not mistaken.
A lot of my old jazz recordings are mono but it does not detract from me enjoying the performance or the sound.
The Verve Collectors Item mashup of all those great jazz artists is a real joy too!
The Bechtel stuff on Mosaic is interesting. The early stuff recorded in the 30's is pretty rough to listen to... (there's 6 LP's) ...but as you work through them, you can clearly hear the evolution of recording fidelity. It gets better in the 40's and then the 50's stuff is RIGHT there! Really cool!
Mono doesn't detract from me either so it's all good.
I bet the Bechtal stuff on Mosaic is quite a treat to listen to as it highlights the evolution of the sound quality improvements over time.
Another good "modern" jazz album is the Pat Metheny Group - American Garage on ECM (ECM 1-1155). It came out in 1979 and was mastered by Bob Ludwig at Masterdisk. It sounds fantastic!
I first saw Pat Metheny live in 1974, he was 20 yrs old and playing with the Gary Burton Trio. The location was the ~100 seat Bluebird bar in Bloomington IN.
I think I have a Pat Metheny CD that I ended up with a few years ago and found it good. Though I had forgotten about it now and should explore more of his stuff. I do have Al Jarreau, as well as some Grover Washington stuff and thought I had Breezin' by George Benson, but somehow I don't see it in my stash.
Anyway, played my early pressing of Kind of Blue tonight while I fixed and ate dinner and a good thing for a dampish but cool fall day around these parts.
On Metheny, Bright Size Life and the aforementioned American Garage, both are musically excellent. Metheny has his own unique jazz guitar signature. Like I mentioned earlier, I have American Garage on ECM vinyl and it is superb.
Since we've been chatting and you brought up Kind of Blue. I only have this on Columbia Legacy CD from 1997. So I went shopping and ordered the Legacy 180gm LP. I also picked up the mono 180gm LP of Sketches of Spain while on the Miles theme.
Kenny Burrell & John Coltrane on Original Jazz Classics is tagging along and I also found Patricia Barber's superb Café Blue on vinyl also.
Happy days are coming!
Very nice, I can't do that kind of purchases at the moment until I get back to FT work, been unemployed since mid June and just yesterday got a notification through the City of Tacoma where I live of a position I had listed on my interest card had come open in their mail services department so applied. Pay is much higher than what I've made in the past, plus it's union so if that comes through, happy days are back as I can get back to purchasing the occasional LP again. :-)
One I want is Kenny Dorham's Whistle Stop, though I'll look for either a Liberty BN or UA Blue Note pressing instead, or just suck it up and get the Music Matter's version as long as it's in print.
Man! Sorry to hear that. I'm assuming you are public sector. In the private sector, if you can fog a mirror right now, you're hired. Companies cannot find enough people for jobs, it really is a problem with 3.7% unemployment. I hope it all works out for you! (Pardon the pun.)
I see Analogue Productions did a release of Whistle Stop in 2008. I'll have to snoop around and see what is out there. There is definitely more great jazz records I want to get.
I just checked Music Matters, Whistle Stop is still available as are other great Blue Note reissues, though some are now $75 for the 33.3 editions, others like Whistle Stop are still $65.
Another album I'd love to get is Kenny Burrell's Midnight Blue album along with some more Miles Davis.
I did decide on this damp and cloudy morning to spin Paul Desmond's Take Ten on vinyl, well, side one while I ate breakfast.
The city is public sector as one, it's union, and two, the classified jobs, which make up the bulk of the openings generally are similar to Civil Service and require testing as part of the application process. Unclassified jobs just require you to have a reasonably close match of skills to apply. Does not mean you'll get it, but you can apply at any rate.
I agree with the unemployment rate being low and part of the issue here is many employers now don't want to train anyone if they can get away with it so a lot of employers, here anyway ask for everything but the kitchen sink in skills, 2-3 years experience in X capacity - and then lowball the pay. Minimum wage here is $11.50/Hr, just went up in January, slowly inching towards $15/Hr minimum but with Amazon deciding to add fulfillment centers with $15/Hr min for ALL positions, be it temp, contract and entry level etc will force other companies to follow suit and many recruiters, both at the temp agencies and other recruitment agencies and the Washington State WorkSource people are having to force employers to either lower expectations, or raise the pay, or both so I'm beginning to see wages begin to inch up in some cases already.
The city and county and all state owned public higher ed entities are under the state in one form or another and use the same Neogov.org entity for all their individual job listings so once set, easy to apply to any of the other entities so that's cool.
Anyway, I have skills, but it's difficult to sell them when many of them are a tad rusty. :-)
But there IS hope though!
Thanks to you, I just added these MM titles...
Kenny Dorham - Whistle Stop (33-1/3 rpm)
Art Blakely - Indestructible (33-1/3 rpm)
Larry Young - Into Somethin' (45 rpm) the only version available.
I tend to steer away from 45 rpm, because the play time per side is so short, versus the sonic benefit.
I have Midnight Blue and love it! If you ever see Blue Lights Vol 1 & 2, you should grab them.
Understood on the job situation. I've always been private sector and have had a nice career. Getting close to retiring, I can see the end in sight. ;-)
Yeah, private sector often can, and many times do pay more than public sector in some areas, but you are more vulnerable to the shifting job market though public sector is not immune either, just a bit more so.
At any rate, I'm sure you read that MM has to shell out millions in insurance to bring to their studios, the actual BN tapes from the vaults to then strike their copy to make an all analog chain reissue of classic Blue Notes and of course, new jazz works as well.
I should keep an eye out no matter what on my local record store, High Voltage that sells both new and used albums as they've had a nice, blue label/white note UA pressing of Whistle Stop in the racks for $40 and it's been there since some point in the spring I believe as they do sometimes have a used record sale, typically at 20% off or some such, and if one happens, and the LP there, I'll snag it as the Liberty or UA Blue Notes are worth picking up as they are quite affordable but sound almost as good as the originals (1956-1966, pressed at Plastylite versions that commend a very, very dear sum, especially if stamped Van Gelder, as most are I think).
Anyway, The next big thing is to upgrade my modest Kenwood for something better as it's the one main bottleneck in the entire system, and as it is, it's not bad at all, does very well, but I attribute that more to the Grado Prestige Green 1 and the Muffsy and the NAD receiver and ADS speakers downstream of the vinyl rig primarily.
I have never objected to paying for true quality. Old motto: Buy it once and be done with it. ;-) Doesn't surprise me that the insurance is very high on irreplaceable master tapes.
I have 2 used record stores near me... I've found some very good stuff in there. Usually, priced very fairly too.
The thing I've found out, is that the point of diminishing return on TT's, arms, cart's and phono pre's, is really high. Not the same as amplification or cd players. You might be better off to buy some used analog gear and purchase higher tier items at lower pricing, than buying new, lesser performing pieces.
I'm fortunate that I have 5 I think used record stores not far from my house. The closest two are about 11 blocks or so from my house and I agree, budget willing, pay for quality goods like turntables. I inherited the Kenwood from my late parents and they bought it new in 1985 so already it has a leg up on the current budget tables now on offer. It helps that I have it kitted out with the Grado prestige Green 1 I bought in the spring and it's connected to a decent phono preamp so it punches way beyond it's price point at the moment but know I can do way better.
I agree on buying used but I have always loved the philosophy of Rega tables once I heard of them around 2000 or so (and heard one too at the time and liked it). At that time, the Planar 3 had just had a major revision - hence the P3 2000, but I'd love to find a second hand P3 24V 2007 iteration or maybe the better P5 or P7, or RP6 if I can find one I can swing over the Planar 3, which has always been a well regarded model in the lineup and it's considered the comopany's bread and butter/workhorse model.
Eventually... Gotta get a workin' first though! :-)
Seems like a Rega P6 with the included Ania MC cart offered, would be a serious upgrade for you. Never owned a Rega but I know they are popular.
With the new MC cart, you'd have to upgrade the Muffsy to get more gain.
My cart is a Shelter 9000, which has 0.6mV output and I run 66dB of gain and a 100ohm load in my Pass Labs XP-15 phono stage. The XP-15 can go to 76dB of gain, if needed. The cool thing is, it can do this with zero change to the noise floor. That Ania MC cart is 0.35mV output, so would need a bit more gain possibly.
Yes, but the outgoing RP8 is over 3 grand with cart though and this new Planar 8 is heavily based on the Naiad concept table from a few short years back so who knows what the prices will be on these or how much more will they go up over the outgoing model - hence even looking at a second hand Rega to enable the upgrade sooner and enjoy.
I know not everyone will love the Rega sound but they do have quite a following and it seems they hold up for the very long haul.
Anyway, even if I wanted to go with a MC cartridge, even if low output, I can order the Muffsy head amp for the Muffsy and be done with, but there again, if the Ania is so low in output can the head unit work with it?
It'll be interesting to see just how good this new model is as I hear the Planar 6, introduced last year is scarely good in and of itself and it has I believe the improved bearing over the P3, has the Olifin based foam plinth, but the same RB330 arm as the Planar 3, has a thicker glass platter, all aluminum sub platter but the same motor and anti vibration circuit of the P3 and of course gets the new Neo Power supply as standard, where as the P3 gets it as an option.
It's one of those designs that when I first heard about them, nearly 20 years ago, I fell in love with its KISS principal of design and how they did incrimental improvements to refine the already sound design principal that's been in use since the early 70's so the more I read, the more I hear how good the improvements have been over time, the more I liked.
Anyway, gotta get working and get bills and some debt paid down first though.
In a 2nd, separate system I put together last winter, I picked up a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut DC tt. I upgraded it with the better platter, a Clamp-it and tossed the Ortofon 2M Red out and got a 2M Bronze instead. Yep! a $450.00 cartridge, on a $400.00 table. Hehehe..!!
For a phono stage, I got the Pro-Ject Tube Box DS2 ($700.00). This system uses my spare 20 yr old Aragon 18K MkII preamp and then I built a Bottlehead Stereomour II 2A3 SET amplifier.
Lastly, I built a pair of high efficiency speakers, using a pair of excellent speaker cabinets I had. Did the Thiel-Small calcs, got the ports correct and using superb point source drivers in each cabinet. Bought a pair of 10" subs and cross them over at 75Hz.
This little flea powered system is a ton of fun! It sounds reasonably good for what it is. I even brought the Carbon Debut up to the main system and listened to it with much higher end gear and it did ok. It does not have near the detail, musicality or bottom end as my high end analog stuff but it did ok. The high end system has a relaxed, effortless liquidity that is hard to describe.
Anyway, a long way of saying again, that there is a really high point of diminishing return in analog playback.
Yeah, I figured just for the table alone, gotta get up around 5K-10K range to begin to hit those diminishing returns, and that's just the table, let alone the cartridge and phono stage but most can get around 90-95% in the 1K-4K or so range with very good cartridge and phono stage.
So yes, vinyl in and of itself is not cheap if you want to play in the big leagues, but it does not have to be if you are willing to drop down to the 85-95% range and be merrily content and can listen to music for long periods if you wish.
Sent you a pm to your email.
Unfortunately, your PM never arrived. :-)
But you got the email. ;-)
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