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In Reply to: RE: Huh? posted by geoffkait on June 25, 2023 at 15:54:31
We know your background because you post about it so you don't need to use it as an intellectual shield. My challenge to you is to show how this knowledge has given you insight or are you just using it in an attempt to impress people.
Dunning-Kruger? 'The Office' is OK, but the UK orignal is superior.
Follow Ups:
I rarely bring up my education or experience. But whatever. I notice you have run out of ammo. Maybe time to reload.
.. is that I replied to your post instead of Gusser's OP by mistake.
He simply asked if the green pen had been tested and my reply, intended for him, is that if tweaks are selling what is the incentive for the manufacturer to run tests that could prove it not as effective as advertized or not in any way effective. I suppose, because you are in the tweak business, you thought I was having a pop at you - there is a line already formed for that :)
You wrote,"He simply asked if the green pen had been tested and my reply, intended for him, is that if tweaks are selling what is the incentive for the manufacturer to run tests that could prove it not as effective as advertized (sic) or not in any way effective."
That's a wild theory, where did you hear that? On an audio forum?
Even if the manufacturer published test results the naysayers wouldn't believe them anyway and would most likely accuse the manufacturer of falsifying the data. It's because they are overly suspicious, I.e., pseudo skeptics. Once the intrepid pseudo skeptic gets into his head that something doesn't smell right it's all downhill from there. Nothing you can do or say will change his mind. Not to mention that it's good sport, going after tweak manufacturers, no? Lol
Edits: 06/27/23 06/27/23
is going to be a trial sport for the next Olympics. I won't be competing as there are many better than I.
My OP was intended for the entire group here. And I do realize that no "green pen" vendor wants to go there. And I also clearly acknowledged I am not debating those who claim a difference is heard. That is a pointless argument as no one can hear exactly what another hears.
It is sad there is no technical discussion or technical opinions expressed of my proposed test technique.
One person here does respond but with insults? That's not how engineering and scientific professionals converse.
Geoff's behavior here is in stark contrast to someone who has the background Geoff claims.
Your comments simply reflect your ignorance of both technical issues involved, which I have explained may times as well as how the whole product testing is supposed to work, which I have also gone to great lengths to explain. If you're pretending to be dense you're doing an excellent job.
Edits: 06/26/23
Correct me where I am wrong, but you only proposed a theory of laser light scatter being a problem. You offered no measurements of this light scatter nor did you do any data integrity tests.The only test you proposed is to try it and see if one hears a difference. If you are who you say you are, you should know full well the potential errors from such an empirical test.
And once again, I answered your last post here without resorting to playground insults. Is this the only way for you to engage in a technical discussion?
Edits: 06/26/23
You're confused. My explanation of the problem of scattered light in CD players is neither a claim or a theory. A person doesn't have to back up ever single statement he makes. This is not some peer review publication. And you are not a peer anyway, although you're pretending to be one. You seem to be under the impression the Green Pen is my product. You're confused again.As for technical arguments you don't have one. All I've seen is a lot of posing from you. Like when you use the term technical discussion.
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That's all you ever do here. You refuse to engage in any deeper technical discussion. And don't try the old "you would not understand it anyway". If that's the case, that's my problem. The real problem is that you don't know my background at all and therefore I or even some else may call any BS you try to use.
It's a rather common tactic by some of these tweak vendors. "Oh, it's deep quantum theory and you wouldn't begin to understand it so just take my word for it, the product works".
No, it's actually you who refuses to engage in technical discussion here. I have already given the technical explanations for what's going on here with the green pen. And I've explained why testing the Green pen has serious pitfalls. So perhaps it's time for you to hit the library and due some due diligence before huffing and puffing yourself up. Nothing but personal attacks from you this entire thread. S or get off the pot. Unless you can actually give me a technical argument to the points I've made I'm afraid this conversation can serve no purpose any longer. The ball is in your court.
Edits: 06/27/23
Well I'm sorry if you perceive my questions about a technical test routine as attacks.As for your claims, yes, I do see your logic and I don't question the possibility. But I do question if it really happens and then if it has an effect on the audio signal. That has not been tested yet or has it? That was my OP along with a suggested way to do it.
Edits: 06/27/23 06/27/23
I tested the Green Pen and it works, you can put your mind at ease. I explained the shortcomings of the Green Pen already, maybe it was over on the other Green Pen thread. And I developed a superior device - the perfect solution, if I do say so myself - that absorbs all wavelengths of scattered light, not just visible red, which is a relatively small percentage of the CD laser light. Thus the invisible part of the CD laser is absorbed, and that's the majority of the nominal 780 nm laser.Other colors can be used on CDs besides green. Because the colors of the paint on the CD label influence the sound by interfering with the scattered light, further improvements to SQ can be obtained by careful application of other colors. And black should only be used to mark the inner lip of the CD, never on the outer edge.
Edits: 06/27/23 06/27/23 06/27/23 06/27/23
z
Nt
You just claimed you have come up with a device to correct error producing scattered laser light which in your words has never been addressed by the established manufactures.As optical disc technology and the need for accurate data recovery goes far beyond music CD's these days, I would think your invention would be worth tens of millions?
Edits: 06/28/23
Just think, all optical media, DVD, BluRay, CD, picture quality and sound quality, let's say the Green Pen improves SQ 10-25% and DVD picture quality 20-35% then my new product improves SQ improves SQ 50-80% and picture quality 50-80% all things being equal. Gotta be worth more a hundred bucks, right?
Edits: 06/28/23 06/28/23
I also don;t think you want to get into the video claims with me as that's my primary career and experience focus.As the video (and audio for that matter) is compressed on DVD or BlueRay as well as an encryption algorithm is applied, your claims become even more ridiculous.
Edits: 06/28/23
If there was a buck to be made with enhanced video quality, don't you think the studios would have jumped on this a long time ago and added an up charge for said enhancement ???
Imagine getting 1080P picture quality from STDDEF content and bandwidth !!!
Compression tech would be obsolete.
.
2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED
Try to escape the reality tunnel you're trapped.in.
Sorry, never subscribed to the shroom and LSD fads but I am sure many of those in the studios have and would have jumped on the green film to make copious amounts of currency if it worked.
It is not a secret after all or maybe it has been kept from them by the MIB ?
QUICK, set up a meeting with the Sony and Phillips execs before someone else does. Or, you could use time travel to go back in time and negotiate an earlier contract with them. Either way, it is a win/win !!!
.
2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED
Nt
An approach would be:
1. Verify that the data read off the disk in real time is the same.
2. Verify if there is a difference in the eye-diagram from the transport (and also at the DAC chip because there could be a jitter filter in-between)
3. Verify the isolation between transport servo power supplies and audio power supplies (or look for servo induced spurs at the DAC output).
4. Controlled listening tests - is the tweak actually identifiable by listeners?
Edits: 06/26/23
Let's start there. Controlled by whom? On what test system? Who are the listeners? You probably didn't get the memo that negative results of a controlled blind test don't mean anything.Controlled blind tests, the favorite tool of the earnest pseudo scientist. "I bet it can't pass a DBT." Of course they never actually do DBTs themselves, it's always someone else's job.
"The best laid plans of mice and men oft go awry." Old audiophile axiom
Burn the witch! Burn the witch!
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I wrote in this thread that I don't care about the protocol, I simply forward the concept of finding out if people really can differentiate between things they say they can when they control the test.
Basically, Audiophilia is about saying 'I am great at listening'. Reviewers especially so - so let's test them.And what if people ace the test - wouldn't that be a positive thing for the audiophile world? The naysayers would have to shut up and go home. Come on Geoff, get on board, you have nothing to lose but your self doubt!
Edits: 06/27/23
A real skeptic would have tested it himself ages ago. You fall into the category of bogus skeptic and tweak denier.
I am a real skeptic. I tested the Green Pen many years ago AND developed the world's first and only true scattered light absorbing system. You are three paradigm shifts behind the power curve.
Your scattered light absorbing system sounds interesting but I won't ask for any evidence it works.
Hearing is believing. Seeing too, since it can be applied to BluRay players, dvd players, and CD players for better SQ and PQ. The best invention since Skippy peanut butter.
There's better peanut butter out there too.
What are you now, about 120? Or are you speaking to me from beyond the grave?
Edits: 06/28/23
I don't care about the protocol just something that recognizes listeners are very prone to confirmation bias and have poor aural memories.
The Placebo effect is straight out of the Pseudo Skeptic's Handbook. Give me a break. They say DBTs eliminate bias. Are you backing down from your own protocol? LolWhat wrong with getting a placebo effect if it improves the sound? What's the difference? Take two placebos and see me in the morning.
If bias was at play, wouldn't your expectation be the tweak was a hoax and therefore you'd get negative results? Hel-loo! I love it when pseudo skeptic throw around terms, as if.
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I deliberately avoided the three-latter acronym that must not be said in front of audiophiles. Just decide on a protocol that everyone agrees on (as if). Yes, I am truly skeptical by nature so my confirmation would likely steer me to no difference for many things that I am skeptical about. That's the whole point of controlled listening tests - to eliminate the bias.
The correct, though less common, use of the term "pseudoskepticism" refers to those who declare themselves merely "skeptical" of a concept, but in reality would not be convinced by any evidence. Common targets of this kind of pseudoskepticism are global warming,[1] evolution, AIDS, GMOs, vaccines, and even religion. This essentially is cloaked denialism, as there is a vast amount of real evidence which these pseudoskeptics willfully ignore. Saying "I am skeptical of X" seems more reasonable than saying "I don't accept X and never will regardless of the evidence", even if the latter is more accurate.
Real skeptics are always prepared to change their positions based on new evidence, consistent with the scientific method. An example is Einstein's Cosmological Constant, which has gone through a number of revisions as to whether it applies or not[2] — thus making skeptics who changed their mind on that issue when the scientific consensus changed, prima facie real skeptics. Clearly, if people change their mind on a topic, that is a positive defense against an accusation that they will not change their mind on that topic.
In the exchanges we had about CD transports, and the green pen, I think I was a clear and open as I could be as to why I didn't accept your blanket statements. I like to think I am open minded enough to accept things if they do work even if the reason is not clear. Though it is likely that if I don't expect a difference I am less inclined to try it but that is not the same as never accepting anything regardless of the evidence. Talking of evidence, your stand is always that you don't need to prove anything so, by your definition, I can't be a pseudo-skeptic because there will never be any evidence.
A word I like, but never get much chance to use, is specious. This means superficially plausible, but wrong. That is how I feel about your products but I don't know for sure they don't work because there is no evidence. So, let me coin the word pseudo-specious for your products.
Nt
And That's the problem with me just "trying it" It works both ways, the believer will most likely hear a difference and the naysayer will not.
Hence, why we have calibrated test procedures to remove thus human bias.
Yes, I like the addition of items 2&3 and they should be checked but keep in mind, if item #1 is good, then items 2&3 must be within specification at least for the SPDIF output.
We don't want to use a DAC for capturing into a work station. The test here is to validate the data. Analog means going through a CD player DAC and then ADC conversion within the workstation, Risk here for minor errors to be introduced.
As for if the laser scatter is influencing the CD player internal DAC, that's another test albeit a good one.
As for item #4, listening, yes I would have to have a report from a listener who heard differences so we could look at the data in those specific areas.
he is a paid inmate and so called 'manufacturer' and we wonder why Rod doesn't banish him, he is the present day annoying Romy type. Nothing but insults and trouble
a lot of us wish for him to just go away for good. This place will survive eloquently. Let him find somewhere else to sell his rocks, lies, and tweaky shit
Nt
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