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In Reply to: RE: Does "stray A/C Voltage" matter? Opinions wanted: posted by Tweekeng on February 10, 2013 at 16:07:15
I don't think that you can call the electric field created by a pair of AC 120V power lines "static" in that it is constantly in flux and changing voltage level and polarity.
If it were a DC field, then perhaps it could be referred to as "static".
If you are trying to hang your hat on the flow of electrons defining a "non-static electric field" (which I would think is actually then defining a current flow), then due to less than perfect insulation materials, and nearby dielectrics and metals, the changing electric field IS causing some electrons to flow in the AC wiring, albeit a relatively small amount.
It is just that the amount is not zero.
Jon Risch
Follow Ups:
I am not going to argue semantics.
What do you think these "live circuit" indicators like Elizabeth spoke of are detecting?
Do you think electricity dribbles out of your outlets and makes puddles of electrons on the floor if they are not covered?
Definition of an electrostatic field:
"Electrostatic fields are E-fields which do not change with time, which happens when the charges are stationary."
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_field
This the kind of field a balloon has when it is rubbed against some wool or polyester. It is static, unvarying DC.
What the device that Elizabeth uses does, is sense the VARYING electric fields of the AC power line.
Of course the electrons do not fall out of the outlet or wires, and pool on the floor (you could never tell from most modern movies, where the outlets and wires are constantly "spilling over" with the electricity "sparking" right out the ends of the wires, and out from the outlet openings).
But the alternating polarity and amplitude varying electric field of the AC power line is an electric field, not an electrostatic field.
You don't want to argue semantics, fine, but you do have to use the right words correctly.
Jon Risch
"What the device that Elizabeth uses does, is sense the VARYING electric fields of the AC power line."
This is correct. It can't be a static charge because the device can only detect AC.
NO IT'S NOT!
And that's the point we are trying to make. It's called a time-varying electric field or more colloquially an AC field.
The ilk of testers that Elizabeth used will NOT detect static fields by design. You can buy ones that can but they are not normally seen outside of electronic outfits where they are often used to assess their ESD controls.
Semantics are important, words are the main way we convey ideas and think about things internally, to a large extent our understanding is only as good as our symbols...
Rick
there are electrostatic fields on the surface of the cable jackets. And these electrostatic fields are definitely un-good for the sound,
"there are electrostatic fields on the surface of the cable jackets. And these electrostatic fields are definitely un-good for the sound,"
Yea on the first part, at least there can be, but I'm not sanguine about the second half of the statement especially without some mechanical input like tromping on your Mic. Cord. I think "definitely" is an over-reach... Maybe "maybe".
Rick
As much as I eschew guesswork, I'm guessing you never got a hold of Nordost Anti Static Spray or Mapleshade's Ionoclast ion gun.
"As much as I eschew guesswork, I'm guessing you never got a hold of Nordost Anti Static Spray or Mapleshade's Ionoclast ion gun."
Not only that but I also threw out my polonium 210 brush a while back. Static isn't too much of a problem here and it had a good 50 half-lives on it. And I've had a bad reaction to some static suppression sprays so they're out.
But I do still have my zero-stat even though it doesn't look so good since I MEK'd it back together after it split in two.
So tell me more about your bizarre fantasies regarding static electricity, I want to believe...
Rick
PS: Did I ever tell you about using my zerostat to charge areas of CD's? Man those things are the pits, I suspect most any surface coating that is faintly conductive will get a thank-you card from your focusing servo. Somewhere on my list is to charge radial strips and monitor the focusing current to see how their amplitude compares with general focusing noise. Of course once the local server is up it becomes a don't care. I also wonder how much they affect the polarization. Meanwhile I'm sure enjoying this SACD of the organ symphony, perfect sound forever!
if you carry though and measure the focusing motor current and voltage.
I do believe it is a primary weakness of the optical drive systems and since it is basically all chip based these days there is very little ( other than an complex circuit board) any one can do to modify and work on it.
In the past, I am sure you have read about how I add ferrofluid to the focus motor coils for a very nice increase in both detail and dynamics. The ferrofluid simply increases the motor sensitivity and speed and the its focus reaction time seems to speed up enabling the better performance.
I would guess a better linear power supply could accomplish similar results, but the area around the servo chips is pretty high density already, although these new SMD devices look interesting, if I could only see the damn things!
I am guessing that the servo chips start to loose their efficiency also over time and are responsible for mistracking. Maybe the internal consitutents are either deteriorating or perhaps "leaking". Often times adding ferrofluid will restore other wise mistracking CD mechanisms
Any way my 2 cents, FWIW
Stu
Hi Stu,
I was only going to monitor the focusing current to see if it was being affected by the charge distribution on the CD surface. When I was playing with it there was a lot of interest in such things and I too was also curious why different disks preferred (SQ-wise) different players. Since it seemed possible that a lot of the stuff being done worked by dissipating or evening out residual charges I started with that premise and found that it was easy to locally force a more or less permenant charge using a zerostat which I could easily detect with a dog-hair electroscope but I wanted to see if they also affected the read head lens mechanism.
That interest seems to have now abated since most folks have already switched to data feeds and even late adopters such as myself will be joining them pretty soon. I've had almost no problems with CD's mistracking I was looking for secondary effects.
Regards, Rick
unless you have converted to a flash type data storage system. The older hard drives still employ a magnetic reader.
Stu
What's bizarre is your know it all attitude. That's what comes from pontificating from the comfort of your Barco Lounger a little too much. It's a little funny, you're like a dung beetle carrying around his outdated ideas like a big ball of dung that gets bigger and bigger...
Edits: 02/12/13
a perfect analogy from the master of dung......and YOU calling out someone for having a no-it-all attitude is laughable!
BTW...Is that you...looking for your latest steaming pile?
Edits: 02/12/13
You may address me as Master if you like.
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