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In Reply to: RE: Underwriters Labs are a scam. nt posted by Norm on January 27, 2013 at 19:58:38
Norm, Sort of like THX certification? ;)
-Ian
"An ounce of perception, a pound of obscure." - Neil Peart
Follow Ups:
Underwriters Labs tests consumer products until they break, explode, or blow up to find any possible safety defects. They have been independent of all manufacturers since the days of Edison & Marconi. THX certification makes sure that bullets sound like bullets & helicopters whooosh really loud before they crash.
Have you heard of or read anything that supports calling UL a scam? I sure hope not. They are the only gatekeeper in America that is keeping an eye on the safety of imported appliances and products sold here. The government is no longer in the product safety assurance biz.
Everything is going to the dogs
many manufacturers actively seek UL approval because UL approval guarantees the manufacturer freedom from the liability factor. For example, no one uses teflon insulation for power cords because it does not meet UL approval (well some do but it is not UL approved).
The UL requirements are rather exacting. IIRC, in the case of cable, the manufacturer has to supply something like a 1000 feet and not expect anything back as some of the UL tests are to the point of destruction. Plus you have to pay for the lab work required: up to $10K.
The worse is that after all that testing and lab fees, once UL approval is granted, anyone copying the design can reproduce it without paying for UL approval as long as they follow the UL specs. The first guy eats all the costs and the rest of the industry just rides on his coattails. (I once had dreams of manufacturing a teflon insulated power cord).
This is unlike THX which is merely a licensing fee. You submit a few samples of your product and THX checks it out and if it meets their minimum standards you pay your $15K and get the product to proudly bear the THX logo. Every different model has to pay for the certification fee, BTw. Change the product and you have to go through the certification again. I would guess THX easily adds at least $100 per component bearing its logo and the more limited the sales are the more the cost is passed on to the consumer. If you're really mass marketed, then the impact may be much more minimal. But high end THX costs the consumer a lot.
yMMV
Stu
Update: So I purchased 3 HiFi Tuning Gold Fuses for my equipment. I got a 12A Slo Blow for the B&K AVR505, a 250mA Slo Blow for the Audio Research DAC7, and a 1.6A Fast Blow for the Integra DPS-10.5 Universal Player.
The first fuse that I changed was the Acme Audio fuse with the 12A HiFi Tuning Fuse in the B&K in order to compare the Acme Audio Fuse to the HiFi Tuning Fuse. After the fuse change, my first reaction was that there was no change between the two fuses. After listening to music (Deep Forest and Marillion - Live at Cadogan Hall) for 10-15 minutes the differences between the fuses became apparent. The HiFi Tuning Gold fuses increased the sound stage in all directions (especially deeper). The sound was more relaxed with greater separation to vocals/instruments and was very enjoyable to listen to. After a couple of hours of listening to music, a put the Acme Audio fuse back in the B&K for more comparison. I realized after this switch that the sound stage was not as deep as with the HiFi Tuning fuse and that the music had a harder edge and was a little more forward. Also, I could hear more grain with the Acme Audio fuses compared to the HiFi Tuning Fuses. At $12 for the Acme Audio fuse, they are an absolute bargain, but are not as refined and do not make the music as enjoyable as the HiFi Tuning fuse; therefore, the HiFi Tuning Gold fuse went back in the B&K.
After a few days I decided to change the stock fuses in the Audio Research DAC7 with the HiFi Tuning Gold. With this in place the music became even better with an even deeper sound stage and more energy/palpability of images within the sound stage. The music just became more natural and had a very smooth and musical flow. I then replaced the stock fuse in the DPS-10.5 Universal Player and everything improve again with improvements similar to the fuse change in the DAC7.
For just under $70 for the 3 fuses, this was a tremendous upgrade in improving the performance of my system.
Next comparison will be the Porter Port vs. The Maestro AC outlet. Stay tuned.
-Ian
"An ounce of perception, a pound of obscure." - Neil Peart
a
Norm, dare I ask cryoed or non-cryoed for the HBL5362? ;) Actually, I was considering adding the HBL5362 as well in both the cryoed and non-cryoed versions. I think I will start with the non-cryoed version first as that is the one you would suggest, correct?
Also, I have had the Maestro in my system for the past 2 weeks and here are some impressions that I have so far. After installing the Maestro in place of the Porter Port outlet, I immediately heard a greater sense of depth to the soundstage. Actually, the soundstage increased in all directions, but especially in depth. I started hearing things in my Cds (that I am quite familiar with) that I do not believe I heard before; or at least, they were not as prominent before. Even with the increased resolution that I was hearing with the Maestro, I was not quite sold at first. For the first few days after installing the Maestro, I was listening to music, but was not being drawn into the music as I had been with the Porter Port. I was a bit disinterested in the music while listening and the music seemed a little "disjointed" at first. It seemed as though the Maestro was not balanced from top to bottom as the upper frequencies and mids were more prominent than the low frequencies. I was getting worried those first few days that the Maestro may just not do it for me. Well, after about a week music became much better and I was drawn into the music again. I am still pretty amazed at how much detail is extracted by the insertion of one AC outlet. I am still not entirely sold on the Maestro yet, but think it is quite a remarkable outlet. I will have to do some more experimenting and reinsert the Porter Port back into the system to re-evalute, but my guess is the Porter Port won't last long in the system before I replace it with the Maestro (mainly due to the collapse of the soundstage and the reduction of resolution/detail).
My only reservation with the Maestro is that it may be too neutral and does not have enough bloom or sweetness to the sound. It is sort of like when I auditioned an Esoteric X03 CD player vs. the Audio Research CD7 a few years ago. The Esoteric did everything in spades, but at the end of the day it was just too neutral and music was much more enjoyable through the Audio Research CD7.
Will the HBL5362 outlet bring back some of that bloom/organic quality to the music?
"An ounce of perception, a pound of obscure." - Neil Peart
Give it some time to breakin. I think you will find it more dynamic and open than the Maestro. I have a SoundApplication/Jena Labs HBL5362 which I will sell for $10 to cover shipping.
Thanks,
Stu
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