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In Reply to: RE: Maybe... posted by geoffkait on January 15, 2013 at 09:50:07
This has been a very informative thread and I thank the contributors for the their input. The tongue-in-cheek humor, and otherwise, has been a hoot and greatly adds to the reading of the material. Due to the information posted herein, I plan to order a demag or system optimizing disc. Thanks.
kendo
Follow Ups:
"I plan to order a demag or system optimizing disc. Thanks."
Sounds like a good plan and I bet you will be well pleased. Please don't mistake my interest in the underlying mechanism as a concern that the devices don't actually work.
Regards, Rick
do you have a gaussmeter?
Stu
"do you have a gaussmeter?"
Nope. I can do AC fields with loops and a scope or meter but don't have any way to measure static fields. Hmmm, now that you mention it that might be a fun thing to have...
Rick
So what do you recommend Stu?
Looks like I can make one with a sensor chip from A/D however it's in an soic package so a little big for real near field stuff.
I googled them up to see if I could get something cheap and found unbelievable weirdness that makes audiophiles look mainstream. I can get one that assesses whether I'm risking death from evil magnetic fields and get this.. If they do do me in my spouse can then use it to see if I'm lurking around as a ghost.
If it also pealed potatoes I wouldn't be able to resist.
Rick
Sorry, was just asking. I scored a Lakeshore meter from our local engineering department which was going to toss the unit. I was really dumpster diving that time, but the unit works and came with two probes in 90 degree different orientations.
Funny after getting it, I rarely use it. I used to use a simple fluid filled compass (Silva) to gauge magnetic fields ( seeing how far away I could place it before the needle deflects).
This was in the days of shielded center channel speakers, important for the older CRT sets. I was purchasing a lot of mu metal in order to ameliorate the magnetic effects, a waste, actually, but I did learn a lot. Channeling the field was more important than actually shielding the field... And by channeling the magnetic field you could reap further sonic benefits ( and video ones too).
YMMZ
OK Stu!
I too have an old Silva compass, but I doubt that it's sensitive to ectoplasmic energy or whatever ghosts give off. However it does point Northish. You know our magnetic declination has changed several degrees since we moved here in '76? So much for solid as the Earth... And, come to think of it, I have a couple degaussers from my R-R tape days. The RS tape one and a head one of some sorts. So I'm not totally magnetically bereft.
"Channeling the field was more important than actually shielding the field... And by channeling the magnetic field you could reap further sonic benefits ( and video ones too)."
I think "channeling" is the only operative mechanism in shields for non-varying signals. If you can effectively "short them out" then stuff on the outside doesn't see them. Varying signals on the other hand can also be converted to heat by resistive materials. Mu-metal does both. Actually all metals do to some extent but it does it by design.
Fun stuff. I was planning to do a lot more tinkering in retirement but I'm having so much fun just listening to what I have now that it's more curiosity than urgency.
Rick
Its been my observation that, in reality, magnetic fields and the fields that are induced by an electrical field move way faster in something like mu metal, or metglas rather than air. By increasing the speed of the magnetic field propagated, the signal which generates it also speeds up, or, at least, presents the sonic quality of "speeding" up.It is fascinating for me because I notice this effect seems to be greater, IMHO, on the negtive or ground wires, rather than the positive.
This is a photo of an IC I made. The wire is Kimber SF-23 and the black strand is clear heatshrink filled with ferrofluid and contains the ground wire ( unbalanced RCA). I have a simple copper wire winding wound about the ferrofluid to capture the E field the magnetic field will generate, and then the sinlge clear strand is the positive SF-23 carrying the signal. The wire topology follows the KS-1010 kimber select IC.
The ferrofluid coupled with the external winding is more open and extended than the factory KS-1010. I like it better although I am a bit worried about the longevity of the ferrofluid filled wire. without the external winding, the cable sounds slow and dull.
In peering through the jacketed Purist Audio Cables, I notice the newer models have copper colored particulate inside of the fluid jacket. ( I am assuming they use ferrofluid also, although Jim Aud has been fairly mum on the subject).
At any rate, lots of room for experimentation. The makers and purveyors of mumetal all recommend a copper surface be added to the mumetal to reduce the elertrical induction, BTW. If using mu metal or other similar treatments they also recommend radiusing the corners. This radiusing is critical as without doing so the sound tends to become edgy; peaky in the highs.
At any rate YMMV, as always
stu
PS Pitch of the winding is not super critical although the finer the pitch the better the sound. The issue becomes one of losing flexibility, however.
Edits: 01/16/13
Wow!
Think I'll stick with masking tape and magnet wire, not nearly as complicated and messy...
I wonder if some of the "speed" increase isn't due to mechanical damping? Wires propagate vibrations a lot more efficiently than one might suppose and that can smear the signal if the insulation isn't electrically "hard" and they also mechanically couple the gear at either end to some extent.
What if you modified the cable the same way but just used a similar viscosity mineral oil? If it works as well it wouldn't leave as dark a stain on the carpet when it leaks!
Slick Rick
You're right about staining: doesn't come out of my jeans and takes forever to come off the skin......If it was merely dampening, I believe the ferrofluid fill would have worked without the copper wire wound outside. The fact that the ferrofluid filled shrink needs the copper winding is an indication that you need to address the electrical induction generated by the magnetic ferrofluid. Without it, the ferrofluid makes the wire sound slow and ponderous, bass heavy, and generally mushy.
This experimentation lead me to wrap my ferrite cores with copper tape. while the effect is more subtle as the ferrite cores have their magnetic constituent fixed, and thus increases the magnetic resistance, it does offer a small increase in the top end energy.
I use large round toroids over or under my motors (TT as well as CD spin motors). The sound improves more noticeably when I wrap the toroid in copper tape and then ground it ( with a crystal in the center I may add, as the toroid seems to "focus" the magnetic field generaed by the motors.....)
I also add ferrofluid to my digital focus motor windings around the laser lens. This really adds significant detail to the music and much better dynamics. I don't recommend this for everyone because if you over fill and the ferrofluid gets on the lens, you've just ruined your read assembly. Also you have to be very careful to fill the coils similarly as an excess in one coil leads to the focus motor controller supplying an unequal correction signal, ruining the read capability. Can't adjust it electronically as the controllers (servos) are all on a single chip these days.
As an aside, I mentioned the ferrofluid to Ivor Kuznetoff (SP?) who built some interesting tube type suspension systems filled with silicone. Having a lot of various viscosity silicon on hand he tried it on his CD player and reported good results. So the dampening is an integral part of the ferrofluid. I like the ferro fluid because the magnetic constituent tends to retain the ferrofluid in the coils and I have less fear of the fluid leaching out and possibly contaminating the lens/mirror assembly.
I also add ferrofluid to cartridge coils with signficant increase in sound quality. Again not for every cartridge as some are very sensitive to the mineral oil in the ferrofluid and the oil can affect the rubber suspension.
I believe the ferrofluid here is filling the gaps between the wire windings and thus presents a more "solid" magnetic block to the applied field. Certainly, say in the case of a MM cartridge, the oil can't be doing much dampening as the coils are tightly wound on a former, but you definitely can hear an increase in dynamic range and better detail. In essence you create a more powerful motor assembly.
As usual YMMV
Stu
Edits: 01/16/13
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