 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
124.185.41.213
In Reply to: RE: as usual, I left out an important point posted by BS64 on December 13, 2010 at 04:59:47
High frequencies actually get absorbed by air though the amount of absorption depends on air volume, and also tend to get absorbed a bit by a lot of room surface materials such as plasterboard. Your room size should be working for you here because of the increased air volume so if you've got a high frequency problem my guess is that you have a lot of reflective surface area in the room which are reflective at high frequencies, things like uncovered glass window areas, a hard reflective floor surface with no floor covering, stone walls, and possibly even a lot of glass or similar surfaced furniture.
The excess mids/highs could have an effect on imaging/sooundstaging if they are coming from the first reflection points so I'd map those points out and see what kind of materials you have at those points.
If it's the nature and size of the reflective surfaces in the room that is the problem, I'd start with things like curtains, a rug between you and the speakers, removing any highly reflective furniture I could, and so on. If you have reflective furniture providing first reflections, then I'd move that furniture elsewhere in the room if I couldn't remove it. TV screens are reflective at high frequencies and can be covered with a blanket or quilt during listening sessions. If that doesn't tame things enough, then adding absorption for the mids to highs would be necessary. When adding panels I'd start with first reflection points but you may need to add some elsewhere if that doesn't do enough to suit you.
You said you couldn't move the listening chair to test out other placements because it's a sofa. If that's the case, leave it where it is, grab a lightweight chair and experiment with other locations to see if you can find one that works better, with or without some speaker position adjustment as well. When you've found a location consider whether you can move the sofa there. If not, then consider using a comfortable, easily movable chair at that location for listening sessions.
David Aiken
Follow Ups:
Walls and ceiling are textured drywall, not smooth drywall as is found on the east coast. Floor is plush carpet. There is a maple entertainment center on the left, same arrangement as in the old house in the bigger room.
I did not realize that drywall was capable of absorbing highs. Getting a center vocal image that stood out from the rest of the soundstage required a hard toe-in of the speakers. I have since tweaked my rig and improved the sound a tad, so perhaps less toe-in will still give me a good center image while not directing the highs at me?
My concern with the speakers facing more forward with less toe-in is that they will be facing that 7' long by 16' wide sloped ceiling surface. But experimentation will determine whether or not that concern is a valid one.
I will play with speaker placement as time permits. Like I said, I wasn't going to move forward with treatment until after the holidays, giving our credit card a chance to cool off. I will experiment and keep you posted. Thanks again...
Drywall doesn't absorb much at high frequencies but it absorbs some and is less reflective at those frequencies as a result.
Toe in depends a lot on room and placement. If you have the speakers pointing right at you, you'll hear more high frequency content in the direct sound than if you have them pointing straight ahead down the room and are listening off the tweeter axis. Is the high frequency balance more to your liking with the speakers firing straight ahead rather than pointing at you? If so, then I expect that you may find that leaving them that way and using absorption at the first reflection points solves your high frequency problem and gives you your centre image. You need to experiment. You can also experiment with intermediate amounts of toe in.
If you simply change toe in with the speakers in their current position and face them down the room, what you're going to do is move the direct sound more off axis and the move the side wall first reflection more on axis compared to the situation with them toed in facing you. That will reduce the high frequency content in what you hear but you say it weakens your centre image. Moving the speakers closer together will move them further from the side walls. If you face them down the room in that position you'll get the same axis changes as facing them down the room in their current position, but to a slightly different degree for the direct sound and the reflected sound, and you may get a stronger centre image because you're also shortening the direct sound path and increasing the first reflection path, weakening that reflection relative to the level of the direct sound. That may give you an acceptable high frequency balance and strengthen your centre image without the need to treat the side wall first reflection points. That's also worth trying but you may find you prefer the speakers further apart. You really need to try these sort of changes out to see what the result is and whether it gives you what you want.
The sloping ceiling may or may not be a problem. I think there's a fair chance that you won't get a first reflection from it but checking that is going to be awkward. What you need to do is sit in your normal listening position facing backwards so you can see the ceiling and get someone to slide a mirror over the ceiling surface. If you can see the drivers in the mirror at any point you've identified a first reflection point. Trying to do a scale drawing and seeing if you can find a reflection path that way is going to be very awkward because of the fact that the reflection plane will itself angle over the sloping surface at an angle and you'd really need 3D modelling software to try and plot the path theoretically. My feeling is that because the slope peaks behind you, you won't get a first reflection from it. For that reason I'm not as worried by the sloping surface as you are and I think it may even be a plus for you rather than a negative. I don't think toe in will affect the reflection paths from the sloped surface.
I wouldn't try treating reflection points until I'd explored placement options. Get the best sound you can without treating reflection points and then refine that result with treatment if necessary.
David Aiken
I will definitely play with speaker positioning before forking out the bucks for treatments.
In my old room, I had a system that could do lots of different music right. Jam sessions with R&R were not fatiguing, and quieter sessions had a nice soundstage w/a holographic center vocal. But as stated earlier I was missing some details that I am now picking up on in a smaller room with closer proximity to the speakers.
I dread the thought that perhaps this system in this room is not suited to the jam sessions. I do not want to change my listening habits, but I accept the fact that high-end systems can be best suited to some types of music and listening styles as opposed to others (Maggies and jazz, for example). Perhaps my current set-up is incapable of accommodating all of my music to my liking? Only experimentation and time in the listening position will tell.
I will keep you posted on findings as time permits. Thanks again!
Post a Followup:
| FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
