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We went 2 days without power in 30 degree weather. As a result, we are going to purchase a generator.
I was wondering if I should buy a large scale (12-20kw) natural gas generator to act as our emergency generator. While the power company electricity is working, I was thinking of using the generator as an off-grid electrical source for my audio system. When there was a power outage from the electric company, I would just shut down the stereo and plug in the important house devices.
I am curious to learn if the larger residential scale natural gas generators produce good/clean AC?
Any input would be appreciated, and yes, I am aware of the sound they produce (roughly 65db at 7 meters).
Follow Ups:
I have a 20kw GE model. It cost less installed than some peoples speaker cables. My listening room is across the house from it. Cannot not hear it there. It comes on once a week and runs for 20 minutes.
The water cooled models are better. But the generator itself is 20,000.00. The aircolled are only rated for 3000 hours use. Would not last long if used for everyday use.
George
There is a huge variety of generator units available. As I said earlier, you get what you pay for.
We used to have a Lister Diesel generator that ran 24/7 for 21 years ... the Listers are all air-cooled, British units designed for desert environments (India, Africa). They barely get warm in North American climates. When we upgraded to a Cummins unit (600 Amps) a few years ago, we sold the Lister for a very good price; As it turns out, the local power utility ended up buying it for remote backup use. The Cummins unit is also air-cooled.
Were it me looking for a generator I would be looking at units designed for whole-home use, connectable to the grid (good regulation and clean power are required for anything the power company will allow tied in). There are some variants that are not generators per se, but charge up via grid power during the night (when rates are low) and either power the home or feed into the grid during peak hours (when rates are high).
There are really too many options out there. Take a deep look.
I don't see variable rates on my bill, except for usage over certain....levels.
That being said, connecting to the grid is a terrific idea. Here in California, the power company is REQUIRED to buy your power....at the expense of simply offsetting your bill. No way to actually MAKE money, but you theoretically can have NO bill.
For the Solar crowd, if you size it right, you can put a big dent in you AC bill and in the winter, perhaps go positive.
Payback? That's another story.
But for Pete's sake, get a real electrician to do the work and look into a whole-house surge arrestor......especially if you live in a lightning prone area. Like I don't.
Too much is never enough
I have a 20 KW for emergency use. I have yet to run my stereo on it. My TV happened to be on the last time we lost power and it worked fine. I can hear mine running even though I put it away from my house. The noise of the generator running won't help your noise floor. You need to change the oil and filter every week. I think that they are great for emergency power. They aren't an economical way to manufacture power. Most of them aren't intended for continuous use. I think that you would do better spending your money on a very good power conditioner for your system.
One other thing. If you buy and install a whole house generator, you will never lose power again. It's sort of a reversal of Murphy's law.
Yes, if you get a good one. I run a small computer company. We got one unit on the recommendation of the local power company. It was not good enough for electronics. You could see the screens swim. They replaced it with an Onan unit (and split the price difference). Nice and stable power, no swim, no complaints from any devices. If it is for emergencies get a propane unit, the fuel does not degrade as it ages.
MylesJ has it right. You get what you pay for when it comes to power generation, and the usual Harbour Freight units are not going to cut it, but good units are out there.
As for natural gas, it's the best fuel if you have it available. Much, much cleaner than any of the alternate fuels, and as a result the generator will last much longer than with any of the alternatives.
You can run almost any gas-type engine on natural gas with a few adjustments; automakers typically test fire engines at the factory with a gas (not gasoline) although I hear Acetylene is used ... perhaps it matches gasoline's air/fuel ratio better.
I use a gen-set in my get away house in the middle of nowhere where power is not always reliable. We are end of line from the power company. Use a power conditioner on the stereo.
This is terribly dirty power for a good audio system, and the generator's lack of regulation for non-Ohmic loads would make it difficult to fix with static filters.
Hi Al,
Lennox makes a 18kw model that is rated at +/- 1.5% voltage regulation and 3% THD. Is this still too high compared to what we get from the power company?
I have nothing against the power company, but feel ill equipped to build my own DIY filters to clean up the power. I installed a 10kVA isolation transformer, but that did not do much.
Thoughts?
Thanks, Pat
If your 10 KVA transformer did not do much, then your AC may already be relatively clean. I don't think the generator is going to give you better AC for your audio system.
I am happy with Alan Maher's Circuit Breaker Filters. These are small plastic boxes filled with piezoelectric dampers, and they reduce RF noise when placed next to incoming AC wires, circuit breakers, branch circuit wires, some outlets (audio system and elsewhere), and above and below some of your audio gear. There is no wiring involved, although a great deal of caution is required when working near live AC wires.
I use such filters in conjunction with my own R-C parallel filters. The CBFs work well on common-mode noise and the parallel filters work well on normal-mode noise. Sorry I don't have a commercial alternative R-C filter to recommend, as I don't have experience with them.
Thanks for the info, Al.
You mentioned that you use your own R-C filters. Can you share your design? Also, are they relatively easy to build?
Thanks in advance for any consideration.
Pat
I had help in their development and am not ready to publish the details.
They are quite complex and take a lot of time and dexterity to assemble. Circumstances prevent me from developing simplified versions.
"Lennox makes a 18kw model that is rated at +/- 1.5% voltage regulation and 3% THD. Is this still too high compared to what we get from the power company?"
That's about what I get straight out of the wall. If you want cleaner power, you can always by a power regenerator from PS audio or one of the other brands.
Jack
I have nothing against the power company, but feel ill equipped to build my own DIY filters to clean up the power. I installed a 10kVA isolation transformer, but that did not do much.
There is a good chance most of the EMI/RFI electrical noise as well as odd harmonics on the mains of the AC power lines/branch circuit wiring in your home is created by electrical appliances and/or electronic devices within your home.......
Even from the power supplies of your audio equipment.
Edits: 11/16/10
Piston powered generators are typically hashy, nasty things good for only emergency power. You could burn diesel, gas or propane, the fuel source does not matter.
Now if you are talking a natural gas turbine you might be on to something, but would still be very hard pressed to beat the utilities. Save your pennies and buy an imaginary Bloom box.
___
Long Live Dr.Gizmo
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