Tweakers' Asylum

All science is based on observations.

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In Reply to: RE: Audiophilia nervosa... posted by jbcortes on April 16, 2010 at 01:38:07

Others who post here would deny additional observations because they "know" it cannot matter.

If you hear a difference, enjoy it knowing full-well that these guys do not know everything and you do not have to accept their limited understanding of what is going on.

HiFi Tuning initially claimed that there was no directionality to their fuses. I found always that there was but that it was not predictable judging from the lettering. They now indicate the direction as does IsoClean, a better fuse in my opinion. I have found that their markings are correct as they are for IsoClean.

You don't have to prove anything to these guys.

Follow Ups:

What most people - unclestu 14:17:56 04/21/10 (1)
do not realize is that every manufacturer has a wide variety of fuse types available. The European fuses seem to have the fewest types, with their slow blow fuses having different overload times: that is a medium fast blow, to a really slow blow variety, with rather specific overload times.
For the US varieties there are definitely two types of Slow Blow fuses. The current variety is constructed with a fiber core with a spiral fusible link wound around that core.
The older and much more expensive type involves a spring loaded fusible link. The fusible link is much more substantial for its rating than the newer construction but the spring applying tension allows for the thicker fusible link to break at the rated amperage value. It most definitely sound better than the newer construction.
I do notice it is capable of higher surge currents, important in many Tube type electronics which have a higher initial turn on surge. On amps like the Quicksilvers, where the manufacturer warns that the fuses may trip for no reason at all after a few years, this type fuse has served for close to a decade with out blowing.
If you closely examine a modern Slow Blow fuse on equipment turn on, you will see the fusible element "jump" as the initial current passes through it. The movement is quite noticeable and I suspect this movement is what eventually fatigues the fusible element, causing it to eventually break even under normal operating conditions.

Digikey still has such fuses but they are special order and, of course, you must make minimum order. Last I checked they were about 3 to 4 dollars apiece.
In the fast blow variety there is a Buss series MTH, IIRC (it's been a while) which as previously stated has a fusible element shaped like a cartoon caricature of a lightning bolt. The fusible link is the where the Z's narrow bridging over to the next zag. My first acquaintance was them in the PS Audio 200C power amp. Again very rarely stocked and a bit pricier. It is again a special order item for most on line distributors, but maybe if enough people ask for them, people like Mike Percy may start to stock them.
And then of course there are the ceramic bodied fuses. These were originally designed to avoid the normal glass bodies shattering, IIRC. I have not disassembled one to examine if the internals are any different from normal fuses. I have been using the other types of fuses mentioned with excellent results for a number of years now, well before the trend of "audiophile" fuses emerged.

Stu

Edits: 04/25/10
- Correction - unclestu 02:00:57 04/23/10 (0)
  The fast blow fuse with the lightning bolt interior can be found under Ebay if you look up MTH fusetron fuses. There are some photos of the interior construction. Note that not all MTH series have the lightning bolt interior, the newer ones seem to have a wavy fusible element internally.
  The spring loaded slow blow fuses are the MDL/MDM series but sadly seem to have their construction changed. I guess technically they should be called dual element designs, and offer 200% overload capacity.
  It is also interesting to note that fuses are now ROHS compliant which means they have shifted from the older leaded solder to the new lead free stuff. Since cable manufacturers always tout the audibility of the solder they use, no doubt that this also has a bearing on the final sound.
  Stu
  
  Edits: 04/23/10 04/23/10 04/25/10
Hear hear! - rick_m 08:51:59 04/17/10 (1)
"If you hear a difference, enjoy it"

For that matter if you DON'T hear a difference, enjoy it because it's one less thing to worry about! Considering the large variations in our systems, environments and ears I simply don't understand people getting uptight because they do or don't hear an affect from a change. And the next level of insanity is getting upset because someone else disagrees with your results or beliefs. Beyond simply hearing is the issue of whether you LIKE a change that you hear. Many changes are compromises of some sort so it's not black & white.

My view is that home audio systems are out of control as are their users. And I mean that in the nicest, most scientific way! The performance and interface aspects of our gear are insufficiently controlled to guarantee predictable results for even a single users. Most of the time, most of the stuff is OK for most of the people, and even for audiophiles. But the latter may wish further optimization. Unless it actually hurts my ears or offends, and many things do, then I can enjoy the music. The biggest, clearest, most important thing anyone needs to learn is to trust their ears. And it can take a long time, many mistakes and lot's of money to really learn that lesson. I think reading AA can reduce the risk and increase the enjoyment, I wish it had been around forty years ago.

"these guys do not know everything and you do not have to accept their limited understanding of what is going on."

Too true! Most of the 'scientific experts' have zero experience working with low level systems or EMI. Anyone whose ever done so knows that there are enough variables to choke a horse.

Regards, Rick
- RE: Hear hear! - unclestu 18:05:35 04/18/10 (0)
  Music is many things to many people. My old girlfriend used to say that since she can understand the words being sung, she didn't need anything more. A later friend who did some belly dancing would key on the rhythmic quality of the music particularly the percussive beats. A friend who professionally plays the flute is particularly sensitive to the upper midrange where the notes of his chosen instrument lie, quite different from another friend who plays the tuba ( professionally).
  Instrumentalists tend to listen to finer nuances of tonal structure, noting the breath control, articulation and such which most listeners would not even be aware of. After all what audiophile can say he or she can hear Guaneri or even a student model violin? Such differences, overall, may be quite small, but their owners while say quite significant. Still it take often years of training to be able to hear those nuances. You can enjoy the written piece without the subtle nuances a talented performer with a great instrument can create. Being able to hear those nuances often enhances that performance however. That is the difference, in my listening, between the playing of a virtuoso and a backyard musician.
  When I listen to my system I want to be able to distinguish the playing of a virtuoso and to be able top hear the subtleties which make him regarded as a virtuoso. If such differences are unimportant to you that's fine. You can get great music at a significant discount and you need not go beyond your local pool of musicians to enjoy all sorts of music.
  Great music, however, is a matter of subtlety. It transcends the mere soloist. Ensembles show greater depth when they play with precision and intonation. Music is one field where the sum of the soloists can often greater than the individual parts ( consider overtones, for example)
  Yeah, Muzak has its place in a waiting room, but in my listening room I want the maximum my gear can allow.
  And then consider: you seriously believe that the megabuck Krell or Levinson, or DCS are NOT using mundane transistors and chips that even some entry level electronics use?
  
  Stu
  
  Edits: 04/21/10

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