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In Reply to: RE: Taking stand / shelf out of the equation posted by VW on September 15, 2007 at 04:51:00
I've experimented with quite a few tweaks/setups, but not the commercial ones, as my pockets are largely empty. My tutors are the inmates here who went those ways before or simultaneously. The best advice is still that you cannot escape trying things yourself and that one setup doesn't do it all in any system.
There is no perfect isolation. Even with magnetic levitation, you still deal with component generated vibes (as you recognize) and airborne vibes. And from what I've seen, air bladder type isolation that touches the component cabinetry is as likely to deal with component vibes as a lot of other tweaks, so you may be off there too. Every one of these "isolation" devices has its weakness and everything that touches the cabinets has a sonic signature of its own. The idea that one magic device is totally "neutral" might be more the holy grail than the actuality, though some are clearly better in that regard than others.
And then there's the taste factor. One of my most trusted informants on AA actually recommends using hardwoods to "tune" the vibes, as opposed to constantly trying to totally eliminate them!
There's even some controversy over the concept that the isolation or coupling devices "drain" vibes from the component. So what you ask - which we've all asked at one time or another as well - is not going to get the type of answer that you may expect.
Having said all those negatives, I think you're trying to do the right thing. I've found vibe control to be a godsend to my sound, as have others. So by all means do go for it.
IMHO, you get more component damping by using tweaks that are designed for that, such as Dynamat or other damping products. You need isolation or coupling in 3 dimensions to control all the usual vibes, not just in any one direction, and what works in one isn't necessarily the same as for the other 2 dimensions.
Since you mention the Monaco, I trust David Aiken's views on this and many other vibrational controls. He loves his Monaco, but even with that he has played with different shelving and footer schemes from their stock. Look up his posts on the Monaco (and other vibe experiments) if you haven't already.
Follow Ups:
Hi bartc, thank you for your take on this issue. It doesn't surprise me that David Aiken found improvements with footers on the Monaco shelves ( I haven't read his posts ) as the component footers would be far from perfect at coupling to the dampened shelf. I have read a lot of posts on vibration control and believe that what most DIY tweaks do ( such as bicycle tubes which I've tried ) is skew the frequency response over part of the frequency band - heavily dependent on compatibility with rack/stand in use for acceptable results, as well as choice of cables, components etc. which may be designed with a frequency hump intentionally. If one pursues the holy grail of audio, then neutral component /cable selection is a pre-requisite and footers need to be neutral in turn across the frequency band. I believe that nearly all commercialy available footers skew the frequency response i.e. imprint their own signature on the sound ( the better footers doing this to a lesser degree than others ) due to an incapacity to truly isolate across all frequencies. I initiated this post hoping someone could comment on the promosing graphite( SE ) Tune Blocks or Equa Rack footers, which would appear to be approaching the ideal of sonic neutrality, at least as far as I can tell from my research. Srajan from Six Moons compared the Equa Rack to the Grand Prix Audio Monaco and found them to be nearly indistinguishable, despite very different design approaches. State of the art isolation footers, should by themselves sound sonically very close ( if approaching ideal functionality and neutrality) and in theory, make shelf/rack far less of an issue. I have been busy 'tuning' my system through exploration of stand/ materials/footers (in effect a skewing of freqencies - which I find leads to a type of 'audiophile nervosa' ) for many years now and am looking to move beyond this, if at all possible. I live in Oz and can't get to try the above footers as easily as someone in the U.S., hence my post.
You made the wrong guess. I did not find improvements with footers on the Monaco shelves.
I started out with the stock acrylic shelves and experimented a little but all the footers I tried sounded worse than simply sitting the component, with it's own stock feet, directly on the shelf.
I tried replacing the acrylic shelf under my CDP with one of GPA's Formula shelves, a composite of carbon fibre, acrylic, and something else. It is definitely superior to the acrylic and, once again, footers were worse than simply sitting the component on the shelf. I subsequently replaced my second shelf with a Formula shelf.
It's true that everything skews the frequency balance somewhat but that doesn't mean that everything is bad. Some things skew the balance a lot less than others and the Monaco is definitely in that catergory—very, very little sonic footprint so therefore very neutral. That's what I regard as good. You can't avoid some character but you can minimise that character, and you can minimise it extremely well with some approaches.
I just checked your details and you're in Brisbane. So am I. E-mail me and we can chat via phone if you like. May take me a few days get back to you since I just got home today from surgery to remove my prostate and I'm feeling buggered. Just answered a few e-mails, read a few posts here and picked up on this thread and now I'm totally buggered again.
We also have a local audio club, the Queensland Audio Club, and I maintain the mailing list. Next meeting is early October. Let me know if you're interested. They're a good crew and you get to hear some good systems plus some good socialisation into the bargain.
David Aiken
LOL
Ask David Aiken for his advice. He's in Oz too and faces the same limitations with product availability that you do, I'd imagine. And he's tried all sorts of commercial and DIY schemes for shelves, footers, racks, etc.
As to those reviews of the Equa Rack (in 6moons or otherwise), as I recall that tuning that ER (the one with all the balls, right?) was a monster of a job, compared to what they said of the Monaco. The approach is very different, though the final results sounded as though they might be similar.
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