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In Reply to: RE: I'm sure his assessment was honest; posted by Mark W. on August 21, 2007 at 19:45:38
>>> "It was meant to insult you. Or anyone who says they hear a difference." <<<
WOW !!
May Belt.
Follow Ups:
I bought a pair of Bose 901's, and indeed, nothing made a difference. Went from zip cord to Monster cable to FultonGolds and there was no difference. Went from Shure v 15 type II to the latest type III, no difference. Tried a Mark Levinson amp, no difference from my Dynaco ST 120. Draw from that experience what you will.
But now I get insulted when someone questions my hearing and says that I am 'faith' based. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but the true colors are showing. For some things, explanations may vary, but out right condemnation leads me now to pity you and your attitude.
Too bad ,
Stu
Hey Stu,
So how do you account for that? I'm thinking likely 'twas the electronic equalizer.
I've noticed that many folks who vehemently say they "believe in science" are actually participating in a religion, but don't realize it. Self-proclaimed 'skeptics' usually are the worst of the lot. Here I'm thinking of the bad-science guy at the Guardian and the old Audio Critic magazine, ironically both examples of truly bad science. In this case there does appear to be some grinding of axes in addition to over-generalization...
Rick
Well to tell the truth, the parts in the Equalizer are so very mundane, to be very charitable....The thing that really opened my ears was turning the speaker around 180 degrees. With the direct firing of the normally 8 rearward facing speakers, there was a significant increase in detail (this was inspired when the 801's, the disco version, came out). The 801's were set up with the eight rear drivers facing forward.
Then I realized that unless you had a perfectly treated wall behind, the direct/reflecting principle simply meant that the reflected sound arrived at the ear at various time intervals creating a huge phase issue. Going back to the original reviews that inspired me to purchase the damn things outright (I was still in high school and not very confident in my own hearing) I then noticed the total THD at 1 meter was over 5%. No wonder nothing seemed to make a difference. No wonder when Bose came out with their 500 watt receiver with 5% distortion, they claimed that it was still inaudible.
I believe my very next speaker was a pair of Maggies, the MG-1, being hooked the 'BIG' Sound. I have never been truly satisfied with most speaker systems. They have been the weakest link in the audio chain, IMHO. Not one, even those $100K systems I have heard at CES, achieve time and phase alignment with a decent frequency response. Oh, they get maybe two of the three OK, but rarely achieve a confluence of all three. Somehow, I seem to find an adequate balance between the three in much cheaper designs (fortunately). Either that or you have to a lot of DIY.
Stu
This is getting quite amusing, unclestu.
Your reply was to my 'posting' but the last sentence of your reply is a bit ambiguous.
Is your condemnation to me and to MY attitude (as your reply was to MY 'posting) or is your condemnation to Mark W and to Mark W's attitude ?
Should hate to start WW3 (World War 3) over a misunderstanding !!!
Regards,
May Belt.
OR we could go back about four steps and I could not type so damn fast and not miss adding the 'nt to the word "was" in the post that got you guys all frothed up.
I have edited the post to reflect what I was trying to say not what I typed (OK now we can have four more posts on the Freudian slip issue)
I am now convinced some people hear things others do not.
I don't.
Thanks for that correction, I was really beginning to wonder.
In light of that correction, I also must apologize to you. My apologies, sir.
Also to May, my comments were not aimed at you, as I had previously posted that I do hear differences.
Stu
Appreciated unclestu. Peace all round.
Now we have calm, can we continue to look at the subject of freezing - irrespective of whether it is freezing using a domestic deep freezer or freezing using cryogenic temperatures.
It is a 'red herring' approach to bring in the FACT that cryogenic temperatures are much lower than the temperature of a domestic deep freezer. Everyone and his uncle KNOW this FACT so, with intelligent people, it is already 'taken into account' in any ensuing discussions. Particularly when the descriptions given by people who CAN hear the beneficial effect i.e. greater height, greater depth, greater width, better separation of instruments, better resolution etc are identical descriptions - irrespective of which freezing temperature they have used.
It has now been acknowledged that some people can 'hear' the beneficial effects of freezing, some cannot but ALL can try the technique, for themselves, at no cost (except in time and patience) but for the people who CAN hear improvements in their sound by carrying out the freezing technique, the time spent and the patience devoted to it is well worthwhile.
Nor can one dismiss these people's experiences as "It must be because of suggestion, the placebo effect, imagination, audio faith healing or effective marketing." because one would then be dismissing so many 'professionals in audio' THEIR experiences !! As I have said previously you can have some disbelief, some scepticism that what many people are describing actually happened (that the sound actually improved) but to not try something when it is so easy to do so but yet still be prepared to dismiss 'out of hand' other serious and sensible 'audiophiles' and 'professionals in audio' experiences borders, in my opinion, on arrogance.
Over the past 25 years I have seen people go through the whole spectrum of reactions.
Some people do not want to try things for themselves but they don't want others to try things either so they make every attempt to discourage others from trying things.
Some people do not want to think things out for themselves but they don't want others to think for themselves either so they make every attempt to discourage others from thinking things out for themselves.
Yes, everyone is entitled to and can voice their opinions but it seems, on so many occasions, to be a downright prolonged attempt by certain people - way beyond what could be regarded as an 'opinion' - to be naysayer regarding anything out of their experience as well as self appointed policemen for the audio world.
So, I would encourage people to experiment, for themselves. At the least you might be pleasantly surprised, at best you might be amazed !!
Regards,
May Belt.
There are procedural consequences also. When I freeze my discs, I allow 48 hours in a standard freezer, and developed this time frame when comparing results to items I had treated with a sry ice/liquid nitrogen process. Too short a freezer stay time, and the actual amount of change was rather limited.
Some times an xperiment with different procedures can lead to various and different conclusions also.
Stu
Going back four steps is fine with me.
Peace is quickly restored.
Regards,
May Belt.
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