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In Reply to: RE: reduce noise in the city.... posted by wlee on August 19, 2007 at 09:01:22
Howdy
Tho this probably isn't the direction you were asking about:
You can consider replacing the windows with more sound proofed versions. I put in http://www.milgard.com/products/sound-control-windows which attenuate quite well.
Also we blew in rock wool into the empty cavities in our walls around the sound room.
If you are willing to do some more serious work consider http://www.quietsolution.com/html/quietrock.html, tho I chose to put green board over my drywall glued on with decking compound to make my own constrained layer dampening...
Here's (a slightly dated) rundown on the things we did to deaden our dedicated sound room: http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hirez/messages/224992.html
-Ted
Follow Ups:
Hi.
I would re-arrange the whole thing. I can almost promise you much much better sound, particulary on stereo music let alone the whole living room will look so much more family friendly, spacy & tidy-up.
Honestly my wife would kill me if I messed up our living room with all those junks (to her, anythingelse beside furnitures is junk).
I would suggest you to move ALL the hardwares against the right side wall. Demolish the high rack & place all the amps on the floor or better on a long long low profile shelf/rack so that they won't be seen by the loudspeakers acoustically.
Have the TV & the centre speaker mounted on the wall. You can now move back your front speakers towards the front wall, allowing more space for the music to flow & more room for you both to move around.
Technically, the last thing I would do is to have the control console placed right beaide your sweat spot (obviously for convenience) as the long long ICs btween the CD player & premap/power amps is sonically a disaster.
Have the CD & other programme soursces move back besides the power amps against the right side wall. Slightly longer speaker cables would do much much less damage to the sound than long ICs.
For good stereo sound, walk a few more feet to change the CD is not big deal to me, to say the least.
For best sonic result, I would even put up a roll-down fabric blind right in front of the TV when playing stereo music to reduce uneven reflection.
Home sweet home, my friend.
c-J
Howdy
I had a friend over today and he noticed something that was bothering me about my system: the low bass was diffuse. We could easily hear the position of a double bass in the image but the low notes didn't seem to be coming from that position but instead from everywhere.
As it turned out a blanket over the plasma made a heck of a difference :)
When I earlier tested my tube back there I was only listening for anomalies in the mid and high freqs not the low bass.
Live and learn :)
-Ted
Howdy
I appreciate the spirit of your posts but you are making a lot of assumptions, I'll outline a few of them:
My amps (at this point) are all on the bottom shelves on home brew isolation. The picture you might have noticed with an amp up high was of my center amp which, as I mentioned earlier, is gone.
The amps sound much better on the bottom shelves than on the floor and they also sound much better on my slabs on foam than just on the shelves. I also have some HRS M3 isolation shelves, but I need to sell them since my home brews are close and have a lower profile that allows me to put my amps on my extant shelves.
The right wall has our bean bag that we enjoy being on. Also the extra lengths of wire to more the racks have their own problems...
As I mentioned before the center speaker is gone. Moving it closer to the wall would be a bad idea since then I'd have to move the left and right speakers closer to the wall which would compromise the stereo presentation.
The plasma is already almost as close to the wall as it would be if it were on a movable mount, I wouldn't be inclined to mount it directly on the wall because I rewire things so often.
Having the transport next to the sweet spot isn't a problem because it uses a pro interface to the DAC, i.e. three ST Optical cables. One clock comes from the DAC to the transport, the clock and data go back to the DAC on separate cables. This minimizes any induced jitter and it vastly superior to AES/EBU, S/PDIFF, TOSLink, etc. and unlike them I hear no difference whether their length is 3' or 30'. All (non optical) ICs in my system are 1 1/4 meters and in fact if I followed your advice about moving things around they would get much longer.
I don't move to change CDs, DVDs or SACDs. The CDs and DVDs (and some SACDs) are in the computer controlled jukeboxes on the tall rack. I do grab them and put them in my transport now and then for better listening quality.
I've put a blanket over the plasma as a test and it doesn't make near the difference that it did over the CRT. The plasma is quite a bit behind the speakers...
Anyway I don't listen to stereo nearly as much as I used to, I have thousands of MC SACDs that sound stinking great :)
Thanks for taking the time to comment, but this system wasn't just thrown together, my room was designed for it and I had it's previous version in a much less hospitable room where still people were amazed that it sounded so good.
-Ted
Hi.
I got a different opinion from the speaker in a Toshiba seminar a couple years in its Canada regional office. The seminar included a HT demo with its top DVD player hooked up to a HT digital receiver via a digital coaxial cable.
I was curious to raise the question - why not optical cable. The answer was: coaxial cable will give much more consistent AUDIO performance than
than fiber-optics. I hope he knew his business.
I know you told us your room is custom-designed for audio. But I believe from my hands-on experience in quite a few audiophile homes acoustical upgrades, the rule is - less sounds better.
c-J
Howdy
There's a huge difference between consumer TOSLink and Pro AT&T ST-Glass, there's a huge difference in the quality of transceivers, there's a huge difference in the protocol used, there's a huge difference when the clock isn't embedded in the data and there's a huge difference when the clock is sourced from the DAC rather than being crammed down the DAC's throat :)
Even with standard AES/EBU or S/PDIF over coax vs TOSLink the difference can go either way depending on the quality of the transceivers and their implementation. Sometimes TOSLink is better just because of the electrical isolation. All things being equal AES/EBU (via XLRs and pulse transformers, etc.) should win for standard consumer digital interconnects.
My room was built for MC audio not stereo, if I listened to mostly stereo I certainly would have done things differently. As is, it's still a compromise in that I enjoy watching TV and DVDs as well as listening to audio and we also enjoy listening from various places not only the sweet spot.
-Ted
Hi.
& you sit around, then you may need a HT digital receiver that comes with a MC level auto-calibration system for various locations.
Check out Denon's latest models, starting USD1,600.00, which provide max 6 location MC level auto-calibration with its mic. - first digital receivers that provide such multi-location set-up feature.
Also, it supports HDMI 1.3a interphase - to provide Deep Colour & true lip sync. If you are also a games fan, bet you'll love it. Also Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD.
c-J
Howdy
My in room measured system is flat within +/- 3dB from 20 to 20kHz (in 1/3 octave steps) without using any auto cal stuff. I have a leg up by design: avoiding all time alignment and speaker distance settings and placing my speakers on the ITU circle, using the same tweeters and mids in all speakers, using matched amps, good absorption, non-parallel walls, etc. Sometime I'm going to do a more accurate measurement but by ear there aren't any particular problems, tho I do take little steps with tweaking periodically.
Every system I've heard which does auto cal takes the life out of good music. My Attraction processor does it, but as I mentioned I don't need it. Also I have a Denon 3930 and it's quite boring compared to my (admittedly more expensive) EMM labs transport, DAC and preamp.
I sure wouldn't mind having HDMI 1.3 on my HD PVRs. The varying audio levels in the various HD offerings and also the lip sync suck for the most part.
-Ted
Hi.
I am still not convinced MC music can outform an oustanding stereo reproduction, IMO despite I am involved in MC digitals of top brandnames day in day out.
c-J
Howdy
Come visit, I've converted some real diehards :)
For minimally screwed with recordings (in a hand waving sense to put up six mics and hit record) the sound is so much more cohesive, more enveloping, no issues of soundstage, you are just there. There are a lot of such recordings on SACD, relatively less on DVD-A. I've found that people don't adapt so well to the MC mixes of stereo that they are used to that is "overproduced". Ironically many of those were mixed both for quad and stereo at the time and now are available on SACD.
-Ted
Hi.
I was in Vancouver 2 weeks ago. How far are your place from San Franciso bay area?
c-J
Howdy
I'm around Seattle, about 817 miles from San Francisco :)
175 miles from Vancouver, Washington and 144 from Vancouver, British Columbia
Shoot me an email if you are in the area.
I've only been in Toronto for APL '79, boy that was another time.
-Ted
Hi.
Would you not find it too much hardware, & too little space for music?
The first rule of good sound to provide most free air for music to move around least obstructed.
It would be OK for HT movies as the programme is already messy enough to tell any differece. But for decent music reproduction, less equipment around the better to provide more space for music to go.
A "dedicated" sound room with least 'high rising' equipment racks all over the place & obstructions,e.g. TV, racks, in btween the speakers is recommended.
c-J
Howdy
Well, we live there too :)
What you can't tell from the pictures is that the speakers are a ways into the room (e.g. the front tweeters are 6' from the front walls and 5' from the sides.)
Also perhaps the scale isn't obvious but all 5 tweeters (now 4, see below) are 9'8" from the sweet spot, that is, we have almost a 20' ITU circle.
One of the biggest differences is that I'm not a believer in diffraction, etc. I like absorption: I only want to hear the sound waves the first time around my room :) So the junk in the extra space behind the speakers, etc. isn't that big of a problem. On the other hand getting the center speaker out from between the front speakers made an amazing difference and hence I've gotten my MC preamp modded to have a phantom center. That made an amazing difference even for pure two channel music.
Anyway your predictions about the sound are wrong, it sounds very good and anyone who doesn't believe me is welcome to visit and hear for themselves :)
-Ted
hi Ted,
The noise is low when i closed all the windows, is just that I likw to have natural air as well as save energy and electricity bill, while have an active noise cancelling devise to reduce the noise some what...
By the way your Wega is CRT or plasma/LCD?
tks and rgds
WLee
Howdy
Some of the pictures in my gallery are of the 40" Sony KV-40XBR800 Wega CRT, it was great but thick and heavy :)
I've replaced it with a 50" Pioneer Elite PureVision Plasma PRO-1140HD which is a lot thinner. This does make a significant difference in the soundstage depth I get.
-Ted
hi ted,
Do u have problem with Plasma turns on delay and how much does it cost you? i have a 4 yrs old NEC 42" plasma thta I bought for US$ 5,500. Not really that great in term of fast moving images. Any 37" to advise as I want to minimize on the heat..
best rgds
WLee
Howdy
I'm probably not the best to ask. I wanted a thinner display with great geometry. DLP's drove me nuts with rainbow problems. Earlier plasmas didn't have colors that looked true to me. I hated the jitter/bumble bee/squirmies around text on the bigger LCDs I saw and the Pioneer Elite just looked good to me for a fair price. They had two 50"'s: a 728 pixel high native and a 1024 pixel high native, the difference in price was very significant and the difference in heat produced was huge. I felt the heat from the 1024 pixel 50" display from about 10" to 12" away on my arms and face!
I'm not sure what you mean by turn on delay: I leave it on most of the time...
Sorry I can't be of more help: my video is clearly secondary to my audio.
-Ted
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