 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
68.7.71.95
I'm awaiting my Dynaco FM3 tuner delivery either tomorrow or Friday. I have heard so much about the sound of this FM tuner , especially after the usual mods.
I'm not too worried about reception because I will be using my Rhombic antenna. so I should have no problems with that. Also the alignment is supposed to be easy with the manual.
Can't remember where I saw it but someone said that has tuner experience said Dynaco FM3 was in the top three tube tuners in the world with Marantz 10b being the top when working and McIntosh being second.
Anyone here have any suggestions for the Dynaco FM3?
Follow Ups:
Today I built and installed the PEC pcb's. I already installed the Dynamicaps 1uf 450vdc. Soundstage is a lot wider and deeper now after these two upgrades. I still need to install the power supply pcb, its all built. This is a temp install as I'm thinking of making an external power supply. I will remove the transformer and make the power supply from all film caps. I still need to upgrade some of the resistors on the audio board to Takman.
So far so good!
Today I received my PEC and Power supply PCB's from SDS. Boards are good quality and were shipped out fast.Now I have to order the parts and start building them. Once these are done I will start upgrading the rest of the output stage. I have the Jensen Copper foil PIO caps already so no ordering of these. I do need to order the resistor next and that should be it.
I found a forum with Bill Thomas and he gives how to check and set the 10.7Mhz with a signal generator and cap.
Edits: 08/09/18 08/09/18
Hi everyone,
I wanted to give the latest update with a better Antenna hooked up to the FM3 tuner I got last week. Well, the first time I hooked it up with just a regular cheap 300 ohm antenna. The reception was good but not great do to some back ground hiss on some station and some sibliance on others.
Today I finally connected my FM3 to my Magnum Dynalab FM2 antenna with the arrival of my Balun. The FM3 sounds a lot better and more quiet on all stations with no back ground hiss when it's tuned in for max reception and all that sibilance is now gone. Sound quality is really nice and like others have said the mids are really nice with good bass. Highs seem there but are a little rolled off but nothing crazy to keep me from enjoying the little tuner. This tuner has good depth in soundstage. So from this first change in antenna quality, this FM3 responds quite well to better antennas.
I'm just enjoying this tuner for now until I can connect my Rhombic Antenna that I some how misplaced. The weird part is I just seen it last month when I was looking for something else. It's here, I just need to find it. Then I will now what this tuner in stock condition can really do.
One thing I noticed that the station dial and the station I'm listening to don't line up properly. The station comes in clear and strong but on the dial it's like .5 off for the actual station. so when the station says 101.5 FM it actually is closer to (almost right on) 102 FM on the dial. So this may need alignment which is ok since I will be doing the upgrades on it and then I can send it to Mike Z for alignment.
Now, onto the upgrades and modules. I have been having a hard time getting any response from FM3 Zone or SDS. I will keep trying and see what happens or I will just make my own PCB's with the upgrades. I will be installing some Jensen Copper Foil PIO caps in the output section. I like the way these sound and will be my first choice. If they don't work for me which I doubt, my next choice will be the Audyn TRUE copper caps.
btw, has anyone here removed the volume/stereo pot on the front panel and bypassed it? I would think this would lead to a big increase in sound quality with the pot out of the circuit.
Hopefully I can find the Rhombic this weekend so I post back on how this FM3 tuners sound with the better directional antenna that the Rhombic is and can give Timbo the results that he is waiting for! :)
back to listening to the FM3!
I've always just turned mine up fully, as he notes, but that's an obvious compromise.
As long as you install a mono switch, so that the tuner can continue to be aligned, removing the volume control and substituting fixed resistors seems like it might be worthwhile.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
I may just do that, putting some Mono switches and remove the pot and just wire it straight out since I always have the output turned all the way up.
But I'm under the impression you would need to turn it wide open, measure the pot's resistance, then add a fixed resistor near that value for each channel, as Lin suggested.
Whether going from, say 160k ohms of a wide open 250k pot to zero ohms of two jumper wires would affect circuit loading is above my pay grade. If nothing else, I would imagine there would be too much gain with zero resistance.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
all the way open and them measure it. But most volume pots that are wide open usually measure at or near zero ohms.
With the pot in series with resistors R85 & 86 (100k), and the equalization PECs being tied in, I thought perhaps it wasn't as simple as removing it.
Have you heard anything from either circuit board supplier yet?
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
After looking into this further, I may still have to put a certain value resistor from points 80 & 86 to ground.
Another guy posted a few years ago said he removed the pot and added a Jensen Copper foil PIO cap but increase the capacitance to 1uF. He also said he had to ground the cap due to its RF interference due to its size but didn't say how just like he didn't say what else he had to do when he removed the pot. I wanted to use the same Jensen's but at either original value or increase it to .47uF. I do have some Jensen Copper foils 1uF but those are big caps. I will have to check to see if they will fit. I will find out soon!
SDS finally did get back with me.
I happened across this post tonight while searching for something else, and thought there might be something in it you could use.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
First I wanted to say Thank You to everyone here who took the time to give info and their feedback. I really appreciate it and will be looking to the other suggested mods/upgrades and other tuners.First off, I received the Dyna FM3 tuner yesterday and it was in the said condition with all the tubes and tube shields. No surprises like how sometimes happens when you by something on the bay, its very clean looking and no dings or dents or scratches. The EMM801 tube works fine and is strong, but may pick up another one for back up.
I hooked it up to a variac slowly bringing it up and let in warm up for 20min. I used a cheapy wire antenna since I couldn't find my Balun to use the Dynaco FM3 with my Magnum Dynalab ST-2 FM antenna.
I was impressed at how good this Dynaco FM3 sounded right off the bat! Very quiet on strong stations with no hissing or humming. Even the weak stations sound good with hardly any hiss I can hear. I need to tune in adjacent stations carefully since the airwaves are congested here but I can tune in stations with very little work. The Right channel was low and I started to think it was a bad tube or something else. So when I went over to my SUMO Charlie which is hooked up still to the Magnum Dynalab antenna, I tapped it a few times and wouldn't you know it....it turned on and was working fine. Must be a cold solder joint somewhere. Anyways, it had a lower right channel too and I found out it was the pot on the Crown XL-1502 the right one was a level lower than the left. So I raised it and went back and started listening again it was all ok now.Now the FM3 really sounds good and I can't wait to get going with some of the mods/upgrades suggested but I first will enjoy it in stock form and take notes before I start on the mods.
One thing that I didn't expect was how hot this tuner gets, man it get hot. I need to place it on its own stand with nothing above it and think of a way to add some low noise fans to help with the heat. One thing I will certainly do is put 105 degree rated electrolytic caps in this for sure.
I will add the higher rated wattage resistors as well. I wanted to use Jensen Copper Foil PIO caps in the audio section for this but it may be too hot for them since the heat in this tuner may shorten their lifespan. we'll see. I have a temperature gun and I will take some measurements and go from there. I can forget about the Jupiter caps for sure in this project.
I will look into replacing the resistors with Takman and Mills, hopefully these will work nicely.
There is a website that sells the Authentic Caps that will fit in the space for the 40+40+20+20uf power supply cap or I can just build the cap mods PCB's I have seen. I will be installing the correct de-emphasis pcb's to correct that and PEC boards.
I will try to post some pics later to show how nice this tuner is inside and out
Edits: 07/28/18 07/28/18 07/28/18
Cougar, as you certainly know just about any tube component needs adequate ventilation. It has been many years but I don't remember my FM-3 running particularly hot. For "nothing above it" I would allow at least 6" clearance. Do you have the manual to see what is advised there? Hopefully someone else with one currently can comment on this. I don't know what would cause excessive heat in your case?
Like reports from so many other parts of the country, FM station selection is pretty limited in San Diego. Many years ago we lost our wonderful classical station when they sold their transmitter and frequency and relocated to Mexico and elsewhere on the dial. After that move I called it the Reader's Digest classical station. They resorted to only popular movements from well known composers, not the full music. And now even they are gone. Classical on our PBS FM station is almost non-existent. The only option I know of is KUSC (91.5) from LA but that has limited reception here. The result for me is more than 90% of my FM listening is on KSDS (88.3). Fortunately I'm a jazz fan, but not smooth jazz! 88.1 is no longer KLON, now it's KKJZ, but still the great jazz format. One would think a metro area with more than 1.5 million population could support more variety than this. I guess most has gone to subscription digital broadcasts.
"I play Kind of Blue every day-it's my orange juice." Quincy Jones
...esp with the perf metal cover in place. Dyna alludes to the heat issue in the manual where they discuss the fact that temp compensating caps were used in the front end to reduce freq drift effects of heat. Although Dyna claims the FM3 is designed to operate w/cover in place, I experience cooler operation and less drift w/o cover. A small fan may also be helpful but I've never used one.
One other heat issue involves the FP type PS filter cap. Dyna uses cap terminals as tie points for a couple of 5W power resistors. Heat from the resistors couples to the PS cap thru the resistor leads thus increasing the operating temp of the cap quite significantly. When I rebuild the PS I usually add a terminal strip near the cap and wire the resistors to the strip instead of directly to the cap terminals. Takes a big heat load off the cap.
The played Jazz and then went to Champagne Jazz which I didn't care for. Then the Changed formats and the broadcast was more compressed than before.I do remember that Classical station, it sound pretty good but I'm not into Classical so I didn't listen much except when checking the system or tuner out. There was another Classical station coming from down south in Mexico and it was on around the same time as the other you had mentioned.
101.5 FM still has a decent sounding broadcast as well as 92.5 FM. There was a station out around 102.7 or 102.9 about 10 years back that was out of Carlsbad but I think they sold out too.
So that Long Beach City College station 88.1 is still around huh? Nice! I remember when I found that station by accident. There was a Jazz station that played the more funk/R&B/fusion type music like Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, George Duke, TOP, and others that was coming out from the north of SD county. I think it was in or around the Riverside area. I could get it sometimes and they had good music. I can't remember exactly but this it was around the 100 MHZ area of the tuner. I don't think there are around anymore.
Like you, most of my listening is on 88.3, but I do listen to 101.5 and 92.5 with some other station I listen to when I'm in the mood. All the stations are being bought up or had their transmitting antennas in Mexico so there are what seems to be hundreds of Mexican station broadcast all over and in between the American stations. Some of them sound pretty good too, it just depends what type of music you like.
Some of these stations are way over compressed and I had a DBX 3BX III for a while to handle that but got rid of it when I was out of work. If I'm correct when 88.3 goes to some different programs of music, those are compressed too. I can hear it easily with the SUMO Charlie cause one moment it sounds really nice and then at the top of the hour when the programing changes, it doesn't sound so good. I notice this lately. But when they do a live recording or broadcast of local bands it's sound really nice.
This is why I don't want to spend a grip on a very good tuner. I had a chance to snag a Marantz 10B tuner for under $1K few years back. It was in good condition physically but it needed some work and the way Radio is going I didn't want to spend a lot of repairing a then alignment of it. Also of what I read of it always needing some sort of maintenance to keep it up and running to max performance.
The SUMO Charlie I have has responded very well to upgrades in the audio and power supply sections. It was one of the Charlies that was aligned by JB himself and it still sounds good with no hiss or hum orstatic sounds from it. It's one very quiet tuner. It has a TUBE type sound that was way better than my Kenwood KT-7500 & 8500, Sansui TU-719 & TU-9900 which all sound good but a little too thin in the mid range. The Sansui TU-9900 was the tuner that picked up that station in the Riverside area. The Front End on that tuner is awesome. The SAE could pull in distant stations but is not even close in sound to any of the other tuners I had or have.
Edits: 07/29/18 07/29/18
Interesting, I didn't know SDSU had a broadcast station, only something local which could be received within a mile or so of campus. I thought City College/KSDS was the only area school with a standard broadcast.
I do like some classic rock but haven't bothered trying to find a decent station for that in some years.
94.1, KFSD, was the classical FM station from 1973 to 1997. Someone told me it was the most powerful station in the County. That made it ripe for buy-out by a network for conversion to a rock station with a much larger audience potential. When that happened the remains of the classical station moved. I believe their studios may have been in North County but the transmitter was in Mexico. They broadcast at 104.5 until they folded.
I've always had a FM tuner as part of my system since that first Dynaco FM-3. I remember the Charlie The Tuner (cute name) but didn't own that model. I think the PSE turner I had in the '80s was based on that design though. I also had a Sansui TU-9900. Mine looked like new but probably needed an alignment since in spite of the reputation it was no better than several others I owned. Another disappointment was the Kenwood KT917. That was claimed to be a top performer but not the one I had, and I bought that one new.
My current tuner is a Denon TU-800. It probably exceeds anything broadcast locally anyway so I no longer think about anything else. I also have classic SAE and Fisher turners but don't need them.
Unless I lived in NYC, Boston, Chicago, or someplace similar I just don't think it makes sense to put much money into an analog tuner, similar to your thoughts. FYI, Mike Z is an expert on the 10B, I arranged for him to make a presentation on them at a SDMAG meeting years ago.
"I play Kind of Blue every day-it's my orange juice." Quincy Jones
It's interesting you have the TU-800. I just bought a near-mint TU-660, which according to fmtunerinfo.com is a TU-800 "lite." Supposedly, the two models share a number of attributes, including the audio output circuitry. So, as a new owner, I'm wondering if you've noticed any issues with low frequency response in your tuner? I've compared mine to both a Fisher FM-2421 and an even older tube type analog that I've had for years. Both comparisons create the same impression, that the Denon is lacking in low frequency response. Subjectively, I'm hearing a significant rolloff from about 100 Hz down.
I guess if other owners don't hear this, I'll need to try to measure it. Maybe I can FM modulate one of the generators at work...
--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
I'll need to see if there's an appropriate means to FM modulate one of the generators or network analyzers at work. I have a Heath stereo generator at home now, but there's no input for external modulation. Just got the thing, so I'm not anxious to modify it at this point.
Thanks for the input!
--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
I used a lesser Denon tuner for years and it had no problem with bass. I used to sell Denon in the 80's and none of the tuners I worked with, even the low priced ones, had a problem with bass. This would be compared to the Tandberg tuners, which I also sold and still lust after.
Dave
Hi TK,
My TU-800 is stock, other than a replacement of the chintzy RCA females with better quality plugs. And yes, I did hear an audible improvement, although that was years ago and I could no longer give a good description. Although it is now getting on in years nothing else has been done, so cap replacement might be due. Mine could be 30 years old and yours only a couple years newer.
But I can't say I've noticed any bass deficiencies. My speakers have decent output down to at least 40 Hz. My FM listening is mainly classic jazz and blues, not the smooth stuff.
Also I'm able to receive a clean stereo signal (most days) from a classical station in LA over 100 miles away. Because of the curvature of the coastline much of that is over water so no obstructions. My antenna is a vertical extension type mounted in a closet.
"I play Kind of Blue every day-it's my orange juice." Quincy Jones
And, after the rebuild is completed of course.Preferably on a good-engineering station on uncompressed music with little station compression, eh? Classical or Jazz?
Back in the day when people didn't think a compromised antenna would be good enough the FM3 had a world-wide reputation.
TIA
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 07/28/18
There is a college station here in San Diego 88.3 FM that plays Jazz all day long. It is the last station that has uncompressed broadcast and when they have live concerts broadcast, the audio is just awesome. There was a station in Long Beach from the Long Beach city college that had uncompressed signals 88.1 FM, I don't know if it is still on the air but I used to be able to receive it with a SAE T-101 tuner and the Rhombic but that was around 15 years ago, that was around 90 miles away with the signal going over the ocean. There are some other good sounding stations here but have some compression but sound way better than the others.
Hopefully the Jensen Copper foil PIO caps will fit in the Audio section. I will also call Mike Z. to set up when I can bring the Dyna FM3 to him for alignment.
You're probably already aware of this, but in the name of "better safe than sorry", I'll say it anyway.
If you read that James Lin article I sent you, take note of when a re-alignment will be necessary. Meaning, mods first, then alingment, or you may be requiring two alignments.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
Tomorrow I will order the upgrade Modules to get started on this. Thanks for the heads up!
Instead, we'll await how good it sounds when it's all done and being driven damn hard.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
As I was emailing Cougar the files he requested, I came across this bit of information above, which I found years ago in an article about general electronics repair (VCRs, TVs, etc). I took note regarding indiscriminately changing out carbon composition resistors in an RF stage.In the James Lin "Improving Dyna's FM-3" article, he mentions a previous Audio Amateur FM-3 article by Ben Pochland, where Pochland replaced the carbon comps with carbon films, supposedly without issue.
Lin goes on to say that he (Lin) then replaced most of the FM-3 resistors with metal films and metal oxides when updating his tuner, including those in the IF and RF stages.
I admit to being rather cautious with regard to this, as well as with replacing a tuner's ceramic or mica caps with film, for example. Since they may act differently at RF frequencies, and I don't begin to claim to understand RF, I tend to leave the type of cap and resistor as the designer(s) intended.
In the output stage, or power supply, that's a different story.
Just an FYI for anyone who's thinking about doing a wholesale replacement of every cap and resistor in their tuner.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
Edits: 07/27/18
It's worth noting that the author of that article used 100 MHz as an example. I don't think that was a shot in the dark. There should be little if any difference replacing carbon comps with film up to frequencies that include the FM IF (10.7 Mhz). But, in the front end where tuned circuits reach 108 MHz, I wouldn't do it. That's not to say the resistors shouldn't be replaced. The value of carbon comps can change significantly with age. Just replace them with known good resistors of the same type as already discussed.
--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
I appreciate you saying that, simply because it tells me I'm not being overly cautious. Too many modders dive in with their "Ready. Fire. Aim!" approach, in my opinion. An amp may be more forgiving to that method, but understanding RF isn't for the average RF-uneducated solder slinger to guess about.
You make a good point regarding checking and replacing old, drifted resistors. Just do so judiciously, would be my suggestion.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
Back in the early 1970s, maybe 1971, I can recall seeing an Audio Research version of the FM-3 in a hifi store. It had the standard ARC 19" faceplate and what appeared to be a stock Dyna FM-3 behind it. I didn't ask the salesman if ARC made any mods but I would not be at all surprised if there were upgrades to the resistors and capacitors.
I built a FM-3 in 1968 and it was my only tuner for nearly a decade. I replaced the coupling caps and some of the resistors with what I thought were upgraded types, and I added a Zener regulated power supply. I always thought the FM-3 sounded great especially with live broadcasts of concerts. The only direct comparison I ever did was at a hifi store where they had the FM-3 and the new solid state FM-5 side by side. They were both connected to a preamp so you could switch from one to the other. The FM-3 sounded like live music, and the FM-5 sounded thin and tinny.
About 10 years ago, I bought a tube Fisher FM-100 which also sounds pretty good, but I have no idea how it would compare to a Dyna.
Go down the page on the link to the ARC Museum and you will see the tuner that I think you are talking about. You were lucky the see one. According to this page, not many were made.
Dave
Thanks for posting the link. Lots of interesting photos there. The FM-3 faceplate isn't quite how I remember it, but my memory could be mistaken since it was almost 50 years ago that I saw it.
That's saying something then. The Remade the Dynaco MKIII mono block power amp, the ST-70 power amp, and The FM3 tuner with some mods.
But never knew they did anything with the MK-III, so thanks to Crazy Dave for the link.
I have the schematic for the ARC ST-70 if anyone needs it.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
I think these ARC/Dynaco products would be very cool to own. They at least should be decent sounding. Another very cool Dynaco Mod is the Tube God Stereo 70, which used Futterman's theory of a very stiffly regulated power supply. Unfortunately, I could not find a link. It was very cool looking. It was one of Harvey "Gizmo" Rosenberg's early companies.
Dave
" I always thought the FM-3 sounded great especially with live broadcasts of concerts. "
I've noticed the same thing regarding vintage tuners. My old '60s-era tube-type can't hold a candle spec-wise to newer models, but it imparts a degree of realism to the local classical station that I haven't heard with anything else. I've often thought about selling it due to the FM congestion in my area, but just can't bring myself to let it go. :)
--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Yes, I have too. I turned on one of our NPR stations one night, and they were broadcasting a recorded live BB King concert.
I happened to have the Sony XDR-F1HD in the system, and listened for about 20 minutes with it. During a break I ran and got one of my FM-3s and hooked it up in place of the Sony. Even cold, it sounded far better than the Sony, and made the rest of the concert much more enjoyable.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
When I was in college near Philadelphia in the early 1970s, the main rock station I listened to occasionally had guest artists playing live in their studio. Typically they were in town for a concert and came by the station and played a mini-concert as a plug for the main event. I tried to have my reel-to-reel recorder all set to record the broadcast concert. All I can say is the sound of the musicians live in the studio was incredible, far better than the LPs the station normally played. And this great sound was all coming out of my Dyna FM-3. The artists I remember recording included America, Brewer and Shipley, and Livingston Taylor. Unfortunately I no longer have the tapes. I threw out all 200+ reels after realizing I hadn't owned a tape deck for over 25 years. Little did I know that R2R would now be back in fashion.
Those tapes are probably no loss. After all these years, bleed-through and drop-out would likely render them poor copies of what you remember. Are reel to reels in vogue now? I wouldn't have one, except maybe an old tube-type Akai. In fact, I have several of those out in the storage shed that I scavange for their amps and power supplies. Replacement heads were discontinued by Akai back in the early '80s if I remember correctly.
--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
"The FM-3 sounded like live music" has what I have been coming across in the searches of the Dynaco FM3 and that grabbed my interest in it. Plus, from what I have read, it responses well to upgrades/mods.
I'm not sure what "the usual mods" means to you, so some clarification would be helpful.
My first concern would be new caps in the power supply, and then think about modifications.
I have a few items in my FM-3 folder, including a James Lin article from 1991 Glass Audio, titled "Improving Dyna's FM-3". That's got David Berning's revised equalization circuit (shown above) for Dyna's 555001 PEC, which wasn't correct.
I also have a PDF about how to replace the EMM-801 eye tube with an EM-84, if you don't have that. Contact me through the Asylum, and I'll be happy to send you whatever files I have.
The nicest sonic improvement I've done to one of mine was to replace C82 and C83, the output coupling caps with 0.1 Russian Teflon caps. Positioned vertically, they just fit under the cage, and they made a very nice improvement in the clarity of the FM-3.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
1973shovel,
Thank You for the info and offer. I send you an email about the mods.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
Not that the FM-3 is bad but there are better (even at reasonable prices).
The vacuum tube Sherwoods are great sounding tuners, mono or stereo.
all the best,
mrh
It just that every time I go to look, the one I'm interested in buying is going for crazy money. So I thought I would try the Dynaco FM3 first and how I like it. Plus seeing how the longevity of the TUBE tuners are.
I have a SUMO Charlie now and have had Sansui's TU-719, TU-9900. The TU-9900 had a hum problem in the FM side only. I eventually tracked it down to a bad transistor in the power supply. That was a very sensitive tuner! I eventually got rid of it due to the SUMO Charlie sounding better. The Sansui TU-9900 sound good but there was just something that after awhile I was looking for something better in sound.
Hopefully I can find a Fisher or Scott and try them for the right price.
...OP has already committed to the FM3. I assume OP researched the subject and decided on the FM3 over others for any number of reasons not necessarily stated.
Yes, it was rude of me to say, "sorry you bought an FM-3, you should've done this instead" -- you're absolutely right about that, and I apologize.Still (and FWIW), I inferred from the original post that the poster wants a good performing inexpensive vacuum tube tuner... and, in my experience, the leader in that arena is Sherwood. There are better sounding tuners than the S-3000 family -- but at (typically) a 10- to 20-fold premium in price (again, based on my experience).
The HH Scott 350 family (including the kit variant, the LT-110) is pricier, but it's also prettier and still a good value, price/performance wise.
Notice that I didn't mention Fisher -- not because they're not good tuners, but they ain't cheap -- they lose out on the "value proposition" from my perspective (a cheapskate who demands good sound).The FM-3's I see that aren't decrepit aren't particularly inexpensive -- which is why I don't have one, frankly.
I do have an AF-6 (soiled state) and it ain't bad... but it doesn't sound as good as an S-3000.
So, at any rate, that's my story & I am stickin' to it.
all the best,
mrh
Edits: 07/27/18 07/27/18
Cougar, no specific suggestions but a few comments.
I built a FM-3 along with a ST-70 and PAS-3 for my first stereo system back in the mid-60s. I'd never soldered before and knew very little about electronics. But I practiced soldering enough to get a feel for it and forged ahead, reading the manuals very carefully. All three units worked upon completion. A couple of years later I had moved near Philadelphia so took all three in to the factory for a check up. The report back was a resoldering of a few connections, otherwise fine and met specs. The point of all that is verification of the basic simplicity of the Dynakits.
As Steve mentioned, I recall the manual did advise an instrument-based alignment if possible. But one advantage for those like me was the ability to do a minimal alignment without other instruments.
The sonics were so much better than anything else I'd heard at the time I was very impressed. Also sensitivity was better in hindsight than might be expected. From my later location in Bucks Co., PA I had good reception for stations in Philadelphia, northern Jersey and NYC.
Any sonic ranking of the classic tube tuners would need to include Fisher and Scott models I would think, but don't know how the FM-3 rates overall.
I recall that William Z Johnson developed mods for the FM-3 along with those he did for other Dyna models. In addition to AVA, Glass Audio or Audio Amateur may have run articles on upgrades.
Anyway, have fun with it.
"I play Kind of Blue every day-it's my orange juice." Quincy Jones
Thanks for the info. Yeah, I wanted to try the Dynaco FM from want I have read and seemed to be a good Tube tuner to start off with. Plus, I have a Latino VTA-120 I build last year and have been happy with it. So hopefully this is a good match.
Dig up copies of the articles published by AVA and Bottlehead regarding FM3 "care and feeding".
BTW, the alignment procedure in the manual works, if and only if certain items are in a factory OEM state. If that's not the case, the sophisticated test bench needed for FM tuners, in general, will be necessary here too.
Eli D.
Hi Eli/Steve O, Thank You for the info!
Mike Zuccurro doesn't live too far from where I work. He has all the Tuner Alignment gear that is needed. He has done work for me in the past and is very good with tuners, so if the tuner's out and if it needs an alignment which most likely it does, I will have him do it for me. I would love to try to align my own tuners but I don't have the FM signal generators (proper generator) for it and other associated gear.
...the "no instrument" alignment procedure in the users manual assumes the IF transformers are tuned reasonably close to the nominal 10.7MHz in the "as found" state. The procedure simply aligns each IF to a common frequency which isn't necessarily 10.7MHz. The following RF alignment also assumes the IFs are at 10.7MHz. Unfortunately, after 50yrs of aging and owner diddling, the IFs are almost always way off 10.7. If re-aligned under this condition and w/o instruments, net result will be reduced sensitivity and selectivity (both marginal as designed) and poor dial tracking and possibly higher noise and distortion.
Dyna discusses an instrument based alignment procedure in the manual and it really is mandatory at this point regardless of legends and hype.
As for mods (as opposed to normal maintenance items like tubes and electrolytic caps), the two most significant IMO are replacement of the two deemphasis/filter PECs on the MPX board with with discreet David Berning filters. Also replace the 10K/2W resistors on IF board wilt 3 or 5W units spaced up from the board for cooling. Some also recommend replacing the 0.1uF output coupling caps with increased values up to 1.0uF. I've found the original 0.1uF value is fine although higher quality caps might be beneficial depending on what's in there now.
I did what I silently curse others for doing, which is repeating most of the items you covered in your post, in mine too.
Time to start practicing what I preach (in my head, anyway) and read ALL the posts prior to responding.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
I don't know if you've had the experience where someone posts a question, and he'll get twelve people giving him the same answer.
I always think, "Don't these guys read the other answers before they post?"
Except that this time I was one of "these guys".
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
...understandable when the posts are minutes or seconds apart since the site doesn't operate in real-time. Annoying when they're hours or days after the OP's question was adequately answered. I think everyone secretly wants to be the "hero".
You nailed my feelings exactly. I always think that when I read those late posts too. My excuse was that I was being lazy, and did not thoroughly read your post before I posted.
My intent wasn't to swoop in and be a hero. Besides, I'm told I don't look good in a cape.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
| FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
