 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
72.69.162.165
In Reply to: RE: SVS Subwoofer posted by hahax@verizon.net on July 18, 2024 at 20:16:20
Integration of a sub or subs is not trivial although it may work for casually-implemented and casually-enjoyed HT or audio systems.
For those who really care about good (and accurate) reproduction, having just HP and LP filters available is not sufficient when adding additional sound sources in the freqeuncy range that is most heavily influenced by room modes and placement. One needs measurement tools and correction filters, ideally via DSP, to both optimize and integrate the sources below the critical (Schoeder) frequency.
Follow Ups:
So no matter how precise the measurement tools and correction filters, which are adjusted via test tones, some music recordings will still boom and others will be bass-shy.
A lot of modern recordings put the bass in yo' face, while many older ones (like lots of 1950s and '60s jazz) put the bassist in a cardboard box on the loading dock behind the studio. Often with the drummer right next to him, playing cardboard drums.
So even when room response is optimized, the listener may wish to boost or dial back the LF response for certain recordings.
*
I'm not talking about one recording vs another, but that some tracks cause an apparent conflict between the main speakers and the subs, whereas with others, they seem quite well integrated.
It's not a simple matter of reducing bass on some tracks that are poorly recorded or mastered.
"I'm not talking about one recording vs another, but that some tracks cause an apparent conflict between the main speakers and the subs"
Please give us a few examples.
*********
We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.
I've not made a point of noting which tracks seem to cause conflict, but it's noticeable each time I spend time listening to music. Even sources such as Radio Paradise will often feature such a track.
As I said before it's nothing to do with the quality of the recording as there's no problem playing it with subs switched off. It could well be more to do with individual frequencies than the recording itself. When the 12" drivers in my main speakers are working with the 12" drivers in the subs, they either work happily together or they argue - perhaps only at particular frequencies!
Thanks KalYes, it certainly isn't a trivial job, nor one that most "amateur" users (including myself) can do properly on their own, particularly if we already have full-range main speakers.
I've been struggling but helped by the guys at REL with regard to where to start with the settings available. Although I sometimes feel the bass is that much deeper and more robust, there are other times when the bass "booms" or "honks" when the subs are on, and I've not established why I get better sound on one track and worse on another!
I prefer not to use Dirac Live DSP (I have it in my NAD M33) because it slightly reduces the top end sparkle that my AG Duo XD speakers can deliver. I don't like the fact that the entire signal (not just the sub 500 Hz part that Dirac adjusts) has to pass through this signal processor.
I do have the option of engaging a subwoofer filter within the M33 in order to cut the lowest frequencies from the amp's speaker outputs, leaving those low frequencies entirely for the sub, but there are potential difficulties with that.
Or, I could move to the M66 that offers Dirac Live Bass Control. Although I know very little about this, I'd want to satisfy myself that the top end does not pass through any signal processor. From what others have said here (or on other forums), DL has to be active in order to use DLBC. Do you know if that's true?
I'm hoping that the M66 can send an unmolested signal to the main speakers (thus retaining top end sparkle), while applying DLBC to the sub outputs. Do you have experience with DLBC or could offer hints? Thanks
Edits: 07/19/24 07/19/24
the only EQ needed in the HT system is on the LFE channel for the pair of diagonally placed subs.
No need to corrupt the eight octave signal to the stats. :)
"I prefer not to use Dirac Live DSP (I have it in my NAD M33) because it slightly reduces the top end sparkle that my AG Duo XD speakers can deliver."
You can set a curtain in DL to prevent any corrections/adjustments above the critical frequency (or anywhere you want).
"I don't like the fact that the entire signal (not just the sub 500 Hz part that Dirac adjusts) has to pass through this signal processor."
Inevitable.
"I'm hoping that the M66 can send an unmolested signal to the main speakers (thus retaining top end sparkle), while applying DLBC to the sub outputs."
That is impossible.
> You can set a curtain in DL to prevent any corrections/adjustments above the critical frequency (or anywhere you want).Yes, and the DL in the M33 has this pre-set at 500 Hz (unless you pay extra for the full frequency DL) - but you can't prevent the higher frequencies from passing through the digital processor, unless you XO beforehand and send only bass frequencies to a DSP, then to a dedicated amp, while the upper frequencies could go to another amp without DSP.
> Inevitable.
Yes with full-range amps that include DSP. Solution described above but adds complication and cost
> That is impossible.
Not sure why that should be. The M66 is capable of XO'ing the signal and could (if NAD wanted it) send the bass only to a DLBC and then to the Sub Outs, while the rest could bypass all DSP and leave the M66 via the main output sockets.
Are you sure this is not what could be done within the M66? I don't know, but I see no reason why it couldn't be done that way. Thanks
Edits: 07/19/24
"Not sure why that should be. The M66 is capable of XO'ing the signal and could (if NAD wanted it) send the bass only to a DLBC and then to the Sub Outs, while the rest could bypass all DSP and leave the M66 via the main output sockets.Are you sure this is not what could be done within the M66? I don't know, but I see no reason why it couldn't be done that way. Thanks"
DB-BC involves integration of subs and mains including configuration of crossover filters above and below the nominal c/o frequency and phase correlation within the shared portion of the spectrum. It cannot correct the sub(s) only; that would be the sound of one hand clapping.
P.S.: It works well on the M66.
Edits: 07/19/24
I'll have to borrow an M66 to see if it causes less damage to the higher frequencies then DL does in the M33. I'm anxiously waiting for a Stereophile or HFN review that will hopefully provide a comprehensive description.
As it happens I can do without DL as my speakers (Avantgarde Duo XD) have a rather less user-friendly DSP built into its bass amps, but of course this wouldn't help with the REL subs that I'm considering ditching.
| FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
