SET Asylum

• Thanks! - Ralph 09:44:19 09/10/21 (11)
  In Reply to: RE: perhaps you can enlighten me? You are correct I've not been keeping up... posted by morricab on September 10, 2021 at 07:30:51

  We still see in all these examples that bass impact will be an issue. Its the full power (not the 'signal bandwidth', whatever that means) bandwidth that really tells what is going on, keeping in mind that in this particular application, the OP will be pushing the amps for all that power.
  
  I agree that if you can do 80KHz its probably just fine. But in terms of 'bass grunt and control' you'll be able to do better on account of the phase shift in the bass region will be robbing the amp of the impact that's really there in the recording.
  
  As I said, its usually the bass region that gets compromised, although I'm sure they sound musical.
  
  
  

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  • RE: Thanks! - thetubeguy1954 15:41:07 09/11/21 (9)
    In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by Ralph on September 10, 2021 at 09:44:19

    Hi Ralph!

    Brad is 100% correct. As an owner of an amp by one of the manufacturers he mentioned i.e., a 135LB, 40W/ch, Mastersound Reference 845, SET amp/integrated amp -{ depending on which I select, but I use it as an amp with a Don Sachs "Custom" SP14 preamp }- for the past 20+ years it has produced the most musical presentation you could imagine! I use it with 92 dB sensitive, Phase Coherent, Reference 3A Taksim speakers in a 15.7" W x 12.7" D room with an 8ft to 10ft sloped ceiling. The speakers are placed on the 15.7" W wall and where the ceiling is 8ft H.

    When I listen to music I listen to about 75% smooth jazz, i.e., Spyro Gyra, Fourplay, Flim & the BB's, Acoustic Alchemy, etc., and 25% Prog-rock, i.e., Genesis, Kansas, YES, Marillion, Boston, etc. Now when I listen I usually like to listen to music a bit on the louder side, but not blasting the music by any means. The music is always musical with clean, crystal-clear highs due to the Taksim's pure Beryllium dome tweeter which uses a single, non-inductive, capacitor as the sole high pass filter! And below that wonderful sounding tweeter is a single, wideband, 8" driver with absolutely no Whizzer!

    The rated freq. response is 31Hz to 40KHz and I can tell you the bass is deep enough I've never thought of getting a subwoofer. Why should I when a couple of times I've even been asked where the sub is? Truth be told I've never enjoyed listening to music as much as I do with the Mastersound/Reference 3A combo. Ralph if you ever visit Orlando, FL. send me a private message and I'll give you a way to get in touch so you can come over and hear what it sounds like for yourself. I think you'd be very surprised by what you hear. I just got the Taksims a few short months ago and I know I still am...

    
    
    Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)
    
    Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
    Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers
    
    
    
    

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    Edits: 10/08/21

    • Sounds like the room is helping you out a lot. - Ralph 08:34:05 09/13/21 (1)
      In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by thetubeguy1954 on September 11, 2021 at 15:41:07

      Have you used a sound pressure level meter to see how loud you're actually playing the system?
      

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      • RE: Sounds like the room is helping you out a lot. - thetubeguy1954 01:31:38 10/08/21 (0)
        In Reply to: RE: Sounds like the room is helping you out a lot. posted by Ralph on September 13, 2021 at 08:34:05

        Ralph,
        
        Believe it or not, I actually have an SPL app but never thought to measure the loudness. This coming Saturday when my wife goes shopping I'll be sure to set the preamp at a normal listening volume --- for me --- and measure what the loudness actually is! Now you have me curious...
        
        
        
        
        Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)
        
        Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
        Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers
        
        
        
        

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    • RE: Thanks! - morricab 14:23:50 09/12/21 (6)
      In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by thetubeguy1954 on September 11, 2021 at 15:41:07

      Nice speakers the Ref 3as. I owned 3 different pairs; Master Control MMC upgraded to the same Be tweeters as in yours, Le Integrale which I upgraded the soft dome tweeter to a better one and La Veritas... a smaller floorstander than the Le Integrales. All had the 8 inch hyper exponential driver with no xover. I upgraded to Odeon horns where I have stayed to this day. I am sure you're make a good combo with the Mastersound.
      

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      • RE: Thanks! - thetubeguy1954 01:51:49 10/08/21 (1)
        In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by morricab on September 12, 2021 at 14:23:50

        Hi Brad!
        
        I may be mistaken, but I believe you may have mentioned owning some Reference 3A speakers before upgrading to your Odeon horns in the past! Perhaps you'd be willing to tell me what sonic improvements, other than an increase in sensitivity, you heard when upgrading to the Odeon horns? Your impressions about the sonic improvements you heard when switching from 3A to Odeon would be very much appreciated. Thanks for your time...
        
        
        
        Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)
        
        Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
        Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers
        
        
        
        

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        • RE: Thanks! - morricab 07:43:35 10/12/21 (0)
          In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by thetubeguy1954 on October 08, 2021 at 01:51:49

          Primarily dynamics...the Odeons sound significantly more realistic with acoustic instruments, particularly horns, strings and especially piano. There is more "action" in the presentation with a stronger sensation of a real person putting pressure on keys and hitting strings (for a piano) or the draw of the bow on strings. The blatt of horns is far more real (my daughter plays trumpet so i have a contemporaneous comparison) and gets a lot closer to my believing i am hearing the real thing.
          
          Coherence and tonality are similar and the basic sensation of transparency is also similar...until you take into account the "action" and dynamic scaling. Then you realize there is additional information coming through with the Odeons that was not coming through with the Ref 3As.
          
          Another friend of mine had Ref 3As (He also had the Master Control MMC like me...both of us upgrading to Be tweeters), that he got to replace Verity Audio Rienzi speakers. Then he heard my Odeons and was bowled over and went out and bought first a pair of Rigolettos (not the current version, which is hugely dynamic as well) and then a pair of No. 32s (a great, great speaker). His system now is very realistic sounding (with Aries Cerat Diana integrated amp that he bought from me) and doesn't think of upgrades anymore.
          

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      • RE: Thanks! - 91derlust 03:22:02 09/14/21 (3)
        In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by morricab on September 12, 2021 at 14:23:50

        Just quietly off topic: those Odeon Rigoletto 2020 speakers do something for me. When I downsize, they are on the list! Back to normal programming.
        
        Cheers.
        
        "Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
        
        

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        • RE: Thanks! - morricab 14:10:10 09/14/21 (2)
          In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by 91derlust on September 14, 2021 at 03:22:02

          I just ordered myself a pair! Are they better than my 20 year old Odeon La Bohemes? But they are so good for so little money I had to have a pair. They are also dramatically better than the previous, already very good Rigolleto.
          
          I say, go for it!
          

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          • RE: Thanks! - 91derlust 15:20:44 09/14/21 (1)
            In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by morricab on September 14, 2021 at 14:10:10

            I was going to say the money is not so little...- the point is though that they appear to represent good value at their price point.
            
            Let us know what you think when you've lived with them for a while. I'm curious!
            
            "Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
            
            

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            • RE: Thanks! - morricab 01:23:16 09/15/21 (0)
              In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by 91derlust on September 14, 2021 at 15:20:44

              In today's high end world, 6.5K is pretty low money for the level of performance I heard.
              

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  • RE: Thanks! - morricab 15:33:15 09/10/21 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by Ralph on September 10, 2021 at 09:44:19

    Bass is a problem of using too small of a core leading to saturation and a huge amount that increase in distortion that is surely audible as the harmonics run right through the midrange. The amps I linked mostly have huge output iron (particularly Aries Cerat...that weight is about iron.) so saturation is almost non-existent and bass has slam and control as well as texture.
    

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