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RE: Troublesome Mantle

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In Reply to: RE: Troublesome Mantle posted by josh358 on May 19, 2011 at 07:46:35

Well, I've heard that Maggies can be placed fairly close to the wall behind them if you use a good mixture of absorption and diffusion on that wall. It's a good thing to tame the backwave. I find it strange that you would NEED to have those speakers "halfway out into the room". The 1.7's might need that much space, but the MMG's? Of course, it almost sounds as if this is the wrong kind of room if you want to be using dipole panel speakers.

Edits: 05/19/11

Follow Ups:

RE: Troublesome Mantle - josh358 09:03:09 05/19/11 (8)
I've been planning to try diffusion to see if I could get them closer to the wall, but only if I couldn't get the facing-the-mantle orientation to work, since from a practical perspective that's the best arrangement for this room. Though diffusion isn't ideal on either of the other walls I could use, one of the diffusers has to be over a window.

Without diffusion, I find that the further out you get them from 3', the deeper the image. I've read that that it keeps getting deeper until you're out 15' from the wall, though for want of a big enough room I've never tried it myself.

I modified these MMG's, BTW, to make them vertical so they image more like their bigger cousins. Stock, MMG's don't image well at all. But I'm planning to replace them with bigger Maggies anyway, these are a stopgap since I couldn't fit my old Tympanis in this little room. Right now, I'm trying to figure out what I can fit in here, that's going to depend to some extent on where in the room they go.
- RE: Troublesome Mantle - genungo 12:14:31 05/19/11 (7)
  Wow, I'm trying to imagine MMG's up off the floor and/or very far away from the rear wall and I'm wondering - what's happening with the bass output? Have you ever heard anything about what happens to the bass when you pull a pair of Maggies 15' away from the rear wall?
  - RE: Troublesome Mantle - josh358 13:00:10 05/19/11 (6)
    Well, the MMG's don't have much bass to lose! :-) They do lose some of what they have when you raise them more than 2" above the floor -- mine are raised 8", which is still too low, the center of the drivers should be at ear height and as things now stand the lower frequency sounds come from an angle about half way to the floor.
    
    However, since I have a sub, the lost bass isn't a killer problem. Plus when they're half way into the room I'm very close to them, and I start to hear nearfield bass reinforcement.
    
    Facing sideways, the way I used to have them and may again if the new orientation doesn't work out, the right hand speaker starts to boom. I think it's a cavity resonance from the space to the left of the mantle in the picture.
    
    Alas, I've yet to find a room in which the best location for imaging and clarity was the best location for bass . . .
    - RE: Troublesome Mantle - genungo 13:24:31 05/19/11 (5)
      I'm not trying to completely derail this thread, but I'm curious about which other speakers you might have in mind for that room. Do you think that 1.7's might work?
      - RE: Troublesome Mantle - josh358 15:07:33 05/19/11 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Troublesome Mantle posted by genungo on May 19, 2011 at 13:24:31
        
        I'm guessing that the 1.7's would work. 3.x's, I'm not so sure about, I'm trying to do a preliminary test of sorts with these MMG's on the assumption that once I know where the tweeters will sit, I can figure out whether I can accommodate an extra 10" on the outside without making them too bass heavy (I probably can't run them tweeters out because I have to leave room for a projection screen). Though I'd be willing to equalize down the bass if necessary.
        
        I'm guessing that 20.1's would be hopeless.
        
        I also wonder whether the room would be too claustrophobic with huge panels a few feet from my nose! My Tympanis were even bigger, but my listening room then was big enough so that they weren't oppressive.
        
        RE: Troublesome Mantle - genungo 17:38:03 05/19/11 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Troublesome Mantle posted by josh358 on May 19, 2011 at 15:07:33
        
        It will be interesting. I've heard of people who listen to their 1.6's from only a couple of feet away, but the usual recommendation is to leave a couple of feet of space between speaker and sidewall. That would leave you with only five feet or so between the speakers, so let's hope that the kind of stereo imaging you value is not going to be compromised.
        
        Edits: 05/19/11
        
        RE: Troublesome Mantle - josh358 06:13:01 05/20/11 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Troublesome Mantle posted by genungo on May 19, 2011 at 17:38:03
        
        Yeah, it's really on the edge. The two-feet-from-the-wall rule is optimum, but it isn't really necessary, I've run them closer and I've experimented with the MMG at various distances. They seem to be OK to about a foot in, much closer and the bass reinforcement becomes overwhelming. But then, the MMG's don't have much bass to begin with. They actually prefer some degree of boost. The larger ones may require some EQ.
        
        The situation is improved a bit from the 5' you mention since the tweeters aren't quite at the edge, and the speakers are usually angled in a bit. I know that a lot of people like listening to Maggies that are closer together than an equilateral triangle, but that never seems to work for me, the mixes all seem to assume the standard stereo triangle. But if needed to maintain the triangle and sufficient side space, I can bring the speakers even closer to the listening chair. This is I think more of a problem with the 1.x's than it is with the MMG's and 3.x's, since the acoustical centers of the woofer and tweeter are so far apart in the former -- further than the distance between tweeter and midrange in the 3.x.
        
        I'm pretty sure the 1.7 would work since it isn't that much larger than the MMG and I know from playing around with the MMG that there's a fair amount of slop, but I've heard horror stories about 2.x's and 3.6's in undersized rooms. What I really need is a small tall Maggie satellite that uses a true ribbon, but since they don't make one . . . I'm curious about the Mini Maggie, but god knows when that's going to show up in the stores and he ain't telling.
        
        RE: "small tall maggie" - genungo 08:32:59 05/20/11 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Troublesome Mantle posted by josh358 on May 20, 2011 at 06:13:01
        
        Has anyone ever tried "stacked" MMG's?
        
        RE: "small tall maggie" - josh358 09:05:53 05/20/11 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "small tall maggie" posted by genungo on May 20, 2011 at 08:32:59
        
        Heh, it's been discussed. Don't know if anyone's ever tried it. I thought of combining a Magenpan ribbon tweeter with a line of BG Neo-8's and using stacked MMG's to fill in the midbass, but the MMG's would be too high for my room. The problem always seems to be the gap between the bottom of the Neo's and the high end of a woofer, maybe 80-200 Hz.

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