 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
130.149.86.77
In Reply to: RE: Audio Show Experiment....... posted by morricab on May 22, 2007 at 03:12:29
> Evidence? What evidence are you referring to?? Please point me to this
> evidence you claim to have.
The real evidence is scientific knowledge about sound, sound perception and the performance of amplifiers. However, if you want to look up the details of the challenges they will no doubt have been reported in the audiophile magazines of the day but, since this was the 1980s, you will probably have to go to a library unless someone can post you a link.
> Carver TFM amps do not sound anything like a good tube amp. I know I used
> to own one. They don't sound like a bad tube amp either for that matter.
They sounded like the expensive valve amplifiers they were designed to sound like under the conditions of the challenges. In this they were successful. Whether they sound like good tube amps or bad tube amps cannot be determined without defining the sound of good and bad.
"The real evidence is scientific knowledge about sound, sound perception and the performance of amplifiers"
Oh you mean like small amounts of high order distortion are audible in sensitive hearing ranges whereas even quite a high amount of 2nd order distortion (over 1% even) is not audible? Things like that? Oh I know, things like discussions from Crowhearst demonstrating that high amounts of negative feedback results in a signal correlated "noise" floor that is really a multitude of high order harmonics, which is changing constantly with the audio signal. Maybe this is inaudible or maybe it is responsible for that somewhat opaque presentation that many SS amps deliver. Or how about Matti Otala showing that back EMF from loudspeakers can generate new kinds of distortion in amplifiers with a high level of negative feedback? Maybe you realize that some kinds of speakers (like electrostats) send nearly the full level signal BACK into the amplifier but obviously not in the same shape it went out of the amp. Think of that being injected all the way back to the input of the amp. It is totally uncorrelated with the currently being amplified signal. Not good I would say and quite possibly audible.
See Andy, I don't believe in Euphonic distortion. I believe in distortion you can hear (bad) and distortion you cannot hear (good). The oscilloscope doesn't discriminate between the two. However; through correlation of listening and measuring we can. Based on the one real study I have read that attempted to do a decent job of this (Cheever) he found that the TYPE of distortion is more important than the level. He also surmized that the fundamental linearity of an amp (ie. open loop) is key to that amp delivering a natural distortion spectrum that our brains can largely ignore.
I tried Keith Howard's distortion adding software and I agree with his conclusion that ALL added distortion makes the sound worse but that a so called "Hiraga" pattern with a smooth decrease in amplitude with increasing order of harmonics is less soncially damaging. I took the same recording of solo violin and added uniform distortion patterns AND patterns I found from some leading amplifiers (taken from 1Khz data). There was also the unaltered piece as a reference. Very educational beause you could hear even quite low levels of added distortion playing the same system at the same volume.
The audiophile industry has been forced to cut itself off from basic knowledge about sound, sound perception and audio in order to use scientifically incorrect beliefs in marketing. Scientific knowledge resides in the technical journals and not the marketing publications and their derivatives. If you look in the technical journals you will see a rather different, far more coherent and long established view of what is going on. All it requires is a bit of interest.
"The audiophile industry has been forced to cut itself off from basic knowledge about sound, sound perception and audio in order to use scientifically incorrect beliefs in marketing."
That is just utter BS, Andy19191
| FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
