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I know Internet radio is only mp3 quality, but my Dragonfly, Korg, and Mytek DACs for my Desktop System will readout whatever Bit-Rate I set them to.
The Dragonfly doesn't upsample, and they said to set it to whatever Rate it's receiving.
But I don't know if it's 16/44, 16/48, 24/48 or 24/96.
Also, the Satellite Box puts out 48K, but don't know if it's 16 or 24 Bit.
Does anyone know, and where might it be documented?
Follow Ups:
All modern operating systems convert all incoming audio streams to one common sampling rate so that they can be mixed together. This is so you can hear (say) an e-mail alert while you are listening to background music.
All sample rate converters degrade the sound, especially the unsophisticated ones used in operating systems. If you want the best fidelity, you should play the music at the native sampling rate. To do this in Windows you go to the Sound section of the Control Panel (I'm still using Win7, so this may be out-of-date) and under the "Advanced" tab of any connected audio device "Properties" there are two check boxes, one for "Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device" and "Give this application priority"
If you check them both, whenever you run your music player (say Foobar, or maybe even a web browser), the music will be played at its native rate and all other sounds will be blocked until you exit the application that is making sound.
With Mac it is slightly different as they do not allow applications to take control of the Core Audio section that manages all of the audio. To get automatic sample rate switching on a Mac you will have to buy a third party program such as Audirvana or JRiver that will either bypass Core Audio or otherwise control its behavior.
Hope this helps,
Charles Hansen
Thanks!
I'm only asking in regard to Internet radio sampling rate.
I have HQ for playing music through DAC.
But on Internet Radio, the Dragonfly reads or displays whatever sampling rate I select in midi audio.
But I can't figure what the actual sampling rate IS.
And I confess, it's not THAT important...
" If you want the best fidelity, you should play the music at the native sampling rate. To do this in Windows you go to the Sound section of the Control Panel (I'm still using Win7, so this may be out-of-date) and under the "Advanced" tab of any connected audio device "Properties" there are two check boxes, one for "Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device" and "Give this application priority"If you check them both, whenever you run your music player (say Foobar, or maybe even a web browser), the music will be played at its native rate and all other sounds will be blocked until you exit the application that is making sound."
Hi Charles. I thought that this did not seem right ( aside from other sounds being blocked) so off I went and checked it on my system using both my local file media player ( JRiver) and an internet radio station (BBC Radio 3).
As expected my DAC did not receive the native rate from the computer for either but that set in the Windows audio processor (I selected 24/176.4 to test). I would have expected the same with Win 7 and 8.1. except that at the time I had them they did not cater for rates higher than 24/96.
To get native rate audio in Windows you either need to have prior knowledge of it and select this in the Win audio player so that they match and switch of all other DSP functions or use a WASAPI or ASIO session or use kernel streaming. Fortunately both of my main computer music applications, JRiver and Qobuz, provide for WASAPI. I also happen to know that the Beeb run their internet stations as 16/48.
Edits: 09/17/17
> > use a WASAPI or ASIO session or use kernel streaming. < <
Hi PAR,
Thanks for adding this in. It's been so long that I've done anything besides this that I took it for granted and forgot this was a necessary step. I've primarily used Foobar and JRiver and they offer a selection of the output mode. when you select one of the above, it works as described. If I forget to turn off Foobar (even if it isn't playing anything), the audio for Skype doesn't work.
But one can also select things like Direct Sound (the default Windows system that sends everything through the mixer) and then you have to know the native sample rate ahead of time and click a half-dozen boxes to change the sample rate of the Windows audio system. Mac is similar, but there is no way to get automatic switching without a 3rd-party program - iTunes (which is free, just as Foobar is free) not only requires all of the above steps but also that you have to quit iTunes before making the changes and then restarting it again.
I have no idea if Windows Media Player (the free program that comes with Windows) allows the selection of WASAPI output (or similar).
Thanks for the correction and clarification.
I didn't know JRiver could be used for Internet Radio.
I'll check it out on my IMac.
Any tips?
Actually in my post above I was playing Radio 3 from their own browser based web player. However, yes you can indeed play internet radio via JRiver. The link below to the JRiver wiki will show you how to do it.
I will say that when working it is great. However my success in adding stations to the Connected Media option is patchy. I can add the URL and the station may appear in the list of them in JRiver Connected Media. But when I click "play" the result is not always a foregone conclusion.
Do let us know if you are succesful.
IME, internet radio sounds best when my iMac digital output is configured at 48kHz/24 bit via the Audio MIDI Setup application.
If I understand your question correctly you are basically asking how you identify the bit depth and sample rate that your Audioquest Dragonfly is receiving. I hope I am right.Internet radio is normally 16/44.1 or 16/48 for this purpose. Even if it is a lossy service e.g MP3 or AAC etc, to the DAC's display it is still 16/44.1 or 16/48. I have never come across a 24 bit internet radio station although streaming services ( usually the paid for variety) can be at this bit depth. Other inmates may have further advice.
The Dragonfly logo on the DAC changes colour according to the sample rate it receives. It cannot be set to a different rate, it selects automatically.
This should not be confused with the data streaming rate of the programme material given a lossy (MP3 etc.)service which is processed by the media player to be passed to the DAC. Even if the stream is only a low rate service the format that the DAC will show is 16:44.1/48. If the sample rate is 44.1KS/s the logo will light as green, 48 blue, 88.2 amber and 96 magenta. with MQA files and the latest Dragonfly software the logo lights up in a purple shade. I am led to believe the latter having no access to MQA myself.
If you have bought a new Dragonfly it comes with a "flight manual" that documents all of the logo colour information although I guess you should also find it on the Audioquest website.
NB: if the logo is red this means that the DAC is on standby.
Edits: 09/16/17 09/16/17
to whatever I set it to in Midi Audio Prefs.
Green for 44.1, Blue for 48, and Magenta for 96.
The Flight Manual just said to set it for whatever is being sent to it. ( or so I remember).
Which is the problem, as I don't know.
It doesn't make much or any real difference that I can hear, but I'd like to know what it really"IS", so to speak.
I am sorry but I understood your reference to "setting" to refer to the Dragonfly's sample rate which cannot be changed as it is selected automatically.
I now understand you meant the setting in Audio Prefs. I attach a link to the flight manual where they suggest 44.1 is most common. I have the same problem myself with Windows where the audio settings cover both bit depth and sample rate. Whatever is selected means that the incoming data is either upsampled or downsampled unless one has fortuitously hit upon a mirror of each other.
As I am not a Mac user I don't know if a similar thing occurs but I guess so.
This does get complicated. From a Windows point of view in earlier versions of Windows you could hover the cursor over the browser window playing the station and see its properties. But this would be the incomimg programme data rate which for lossy stations is what the codec is using e.g 192Kb/s.
I don't think that there is a way of finding out what the internet station's player is sending to the DAC via Mac audio preferences except by what the DAC tells you ( which will presumably be what rate is set in audio preferences !).
The solution would be to avoid Mac MIDI audio preferences or Win Audio. In Windows this can be done by using a WASAPI session whereby the incoming data is passed through bit perfect. The downside is that I haven't come across any web based (in browser) player that caters for this. I also have never heard of a similar Mac facility so maybe the MIDI audio preference can be bypassed some other way? I haven't seen inmates complaining about Mac up/downsampling when not required.
I think that you may have to accept that internet radio is normally configured to be easily usable by everyone and that what we may think of as useful or essential information is just not catered for. I would just set the audio preference to 44.1 as this is likely to cover most of this type of input. If you change it to 48.0 I would be amazed if you can hear a difference anyway.
If you subscribe to a lossless streaming service and use a desktop player then you may be able to see the rate sent ( e.g. Qobuz for us Europeans) or, if the rate is fixed , know what it is from the supplier's promo or instructional material ( e.g. Primephonic).
Sorry but in the end I haven't been much help I am afraid.
amazed if you can hear a difference anyway.
Well, that's right!
I think I stirred things up too much with this thread, but I appreciate all the replies.
If you want sample rates, that would be variable, depending on the type of file being sent, right?
I'm just trying to match what's being played, often Joe Frank, to the Dac.
I was hoping there was a way to tell.
The different choices don't really sound different.
But the Dacs I use all read out whatever I select in Midi Audio, there's no Automatic Detection.
Not with HQ or JRiver or AV+ of course, just Internet Radio.
The stations I listen to aren't on ITunes either.
Anyway, thanks for your input!
> > But the Dacs I use all read out whatever I select in Midi Audio, there's no Automatic Detection. < <
This is true of every DAC in the world. The DAC can only report the received sample rate. Unless using some of the programs and settings described elsewhere in the thread, the OS will use its built-in low quality SRC conversion program to make all audio the same rate so it can mix it. Unless you know ahead of time the correct sample rate and manually set it, or use special software with (with special settings in Windows), there is no way to affect how the OS changes the sample rate - certainly not by any DAC.
Hope this helps.
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