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Hello.
I have been improving my system over the years and I'm now thinking where should I spend next. Nothing in particular I want to fix, but rather a desire to continue to improve sound - something that has given me results and pleasure over the last 7 years.
My thinking is I should either improve on the server, so to avoid using the USB board both for streaming and HDD access, to use a SotM-like card, etc, or else tackle power regeneration/filtration for the whole setup. Would appreciate your opinions as to bang for buck and improvements to expect from doing either.
Current setup:
- 2 dedicated power lines. One ends on a Oyaide R1, the other one on a hospital grade Leviton outlet.
- My only source is a computer, an ancient HP Pavilion laptop with 1.73 GHz Pentium processor, 2 GB RAM, small HDD. Music is stored (FLAC/WAV) on an external HD with its own power supply, connected thru USB to the laptop. I run JRiver MC and JRemote, and the laptop is for music only.
- Then an Audiophilleo 2 with PurePower into a Metrum Octave mk I, into a Lamm LL2, into a McIntosh MC275. Both the Lamm and Mc have rolled tubes, and both have DIY power cables per the Chris venHaus recipe, with Oyaide connectors.
- Interconnects and speaker cables are Purist Audio Museaus.
- Speakers are B&W 804S. I also have two 12" Rythmik subs.
- The room is fairly treated ( I made several treatments) and I use a measurement mic and software to help in setting up, especially the subs' location and settings.
- Vibrations have not been tackled yet, but I'm onto making a new rack and have some footers to experiment with.
Sorry for the amount of info above, but thought it was relevant to help focus the replies.
I realize this is a computer audio forum and there might be some bias towards improving the server, but I trust fellow inmates' judgement and hence the thread is posted here.
So what do you think?
Follow Ups:
"My thinking is I should either improve on the server, so to avoid using the USB board both for streaming and HDD access, to use a SotM-like card, etc,"
This IMO would be a necessary upgrade. Your notebook is a limiting factor. Using USB for audio and HD access is not a good idea. My take would be to upgrade to a CAPs server, either a low power ATOM or a higher power I7. If you are strictly staying with JRiver MC the the ATOM is ok. If you have any inclination to try Jplay the added power is useful. Higher power is also useful for DSP etc. I have both and I would recommend building a higher power system, at least an I3.
I am using a PPA Studio USB card and find it a clear improvement over the MB USB. I run headless and I also turn everything else off that is not necessary on the MB. There is no real way to do this with a notebook.
I would also suggest you look at the OS. I have been amazed with the improvement I realized by going to Sever 2012, Jplay and the Audio Phil optimizer.
"or else tackle power regeneration/filtration for the whole setup. Would appreciate your opinions as to bang for buck and improvements to expect from doing either."
I use both batteries and linear supplies in my system. Clean power is important also, but IMO no matter what you do power wise your current system will still be a limiting factor.
regards
Bob
Thanks Bob for the very good post. I realize this is yet one other iteration of the eternal "speakers first vs source first" argument, yet relevant for me.
I'm taking note of your several suggestions for further exploration down the road, such as OS, audio optimizer, and JPlay. As you put it, I do have an inclination to try JPlay as I've seen so many great comments about sound improvements.
So I guess I should look at an I5 or I7. In turn, I guess that also means additional passive cooling. Any particular MB you recommend?
Should I use an internal small SSD for system only + external USB HDD for music, or shoot for large internal SSD for both system and music files? My music collection fits in a 750 GB drive.
What is a PPA Studio USB card? What does PPA stand for?
Thanks again!
"So I guess I should look at an I5 or I7. In turn, I guess that also means additional passive cooling. Any particular MB you recommend?"
The easy solution is to go with the CA Zuma. Chris has done a great job designing these systems. I went a bit different by using a small server board, the S1200KPR. I used a Streamcom non-passive case because of the MB's CPU location. People are staring to build systems with the new 1150 Haswell so you might want to wait a bit and see what shakes out. I have not researched the 1150's much yet. I would always stick to a low power 35-45W TPD CPU.
"Should I use an internal small SSD for system only + external USB HDD for music, or shoot for large internal SSD for both system and music files? My music collection fits in a 750 GB drive."
This is debatable . I store my files on a NAS and use a small system SSD. No matter what storage method I would stick with a small separate OS drive and I would not use a USB drive for file storage with a USB connected DAC. Another way is to have a second lager internal music drive in the server. I have not done comparisons, but this is also a viable solution. If you want to go the Jplay route, IMO ultimately the best solution is a dual PC streamer system. You could still use your notebook as the control PC and a large enough internal drive in the notebook for your music. Check out the JPlay forum, lots of good ideas.
"What is a PPA Studio USB card? What does PPA stand for?"
PPA is Paul Pang. He is a audio fanatic from Taiwan who currently makes some of the best computer audio stuff out there IMO. His USB card is less expensive and as good or better than the SOTM card. I have not compared, but others have and switched to the PPA. I believe some have also compared it to the fiber USB and preferred the PPA card. I put a link below.
regards
Bob
I wanted to provide a follow-up since I was given such good advice here. I'm also puzzled by the lack of comments about server boards here, like the Intel S1200KPR that is so popular at other specialized forums.
Following Bob_C's tips, and after figuring out how to source all ingredients to the Kingdom of Far, Far Away, here's what I'm building:
Single server running Windows Server 2012, AudioPhil's Optimizer, JRiver, and maybe JPlay - will have to test it.
Intel S1200KPR mobo, Intel Xeon E3 1265v2 processor, 2x4 GB ECC RAM, 64GB Crucial SSD for OS, WD Green Caviar SATA HDD for music, PPA USB card, PPA SATA cable for OS SSD, PPA PicoPSU. While a SSD for music would have been preferred, I will wait for the large ones to come down in price.
Power supply is still not fully defined, but looking like an Anker E4 battery for the OS SSD, another E4 for the USB card, and a linear PSU to the PicoPSU. What I haven't defined yet is how to power the HDD, but I know it will be independent from the SSD and USB card PS.
I should have this up and running in a month or so. Can't wait!
Thanks again for the great feedback provided, and I hope someone finds this post helpful.
Cheers!
My view is this:-
laptops run many more background services than minimised desktops. The latency of htese when playing audio can be much higher.
I would go for CAPS 3 or the Item Audio T3 components.
Thank you fmak.
I was trying to put into perspective your recommendation. Was it from someone who had never tried power treatment and had come to believe it was not worth it, or from someone like you who has tried both and is providing an answer driven by experience.
BTW, when you say your DAC and power amp are powered separately, are they on a power regenerator, filter, isolation transformer?
I'm intrigued by the lack of debate, though.
Again, thanks for your input!
Isolating transformer for PC; Regenerators for digital and analog separately. This is somewhat extreme but even then such things like satellite receivers and routers have effects on the sound when unplugged.
This is on main system. My computer system is somewhat less convoluted.
Thank you fmak. An isolation transformer for the computer seems like an easy and low cost solution. I will go down that route while I also explore replacing the laptop.
Thanks fmak.
What has been your experience with power treatment?
Not sure what you mean. I power my PC thru an isolating transformer and with separate linear ssds and hdd power supplies. The dac and power amp are also separately powered.
I also measure spikes on my MB supplies and suppress them with added bypass capacitance.
These measures improve SQ significantly by the removal of digititis.
fmak said: "These measures improve SQ significantly by the removal of 'a word not found in that sense in any dictionary'."
Yup, that about sums up the level of advice you can expect some of the inmates here to provide.
All the Best!
JE
With apologies to Chief Justice Potter Stewart: "I know it when I hear it."
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
That cracked me up! A tip of the hat to you!
JE
"word not found in that sense in any dictionary'." "
Everyone with here with any bit of common sense clearly understands exactly what was said.
Sorry but I guess this leaves you out!
regards
Bob
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