Planar Speaker Asylum

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Planar Speaker Asylum

I want fast decay on bass transients - yea yea

70.181.162.138

In Reply to: RE: best recording to show off Maggie lightning fast bass ? posted by trioderob on November 10, 2021 at 21:15:38

Dont give me no slow decay - no no

wow guys thanks for taking the time to post such detailed responses

you are guys are a fountain of information

Follow Ups:

RE: I want fast decay on bass transients - yea yea - Green Lantern 16:42:00 11/13/21 (2)
upright bass on Magnepans are a thing of wonder. I learned this when I had my 1.6's.
Most recordings of acoustic bass solos I've heard are always amazing: positioned dead center, seamless integration from top to bottom, finger plucks, fret vibration,etc.
With Maggies (and I assume the majority of other planars) you sense the notes are originating from the 'body' of the instrument itself, not simply being fired at you like traditional box speakers tend to do. And don't get me started on bowing on an upright...Just amazing.

Edits: 11/13/21 11/15/21
- RE: I want fast decay on bass transients - yea yea - Story 09:06:52 11/14/21 (1)
  just an FYI, uprights don't have frets
  - lol thats right - Green Lantern 09:35:16 11/15/21 (0)
    The metallic twanging threw me off! : ) good catch
RE: I want fast decay on bass transients - yea yea - Davey 08:40:47 11/13/21 (17)
If you want fast decay, Magnepans are not the speakers for you. :)
You want something with a more powerful motor structure, relative to the mass of the transducer.

Dave.
- that why a bass compression driver is the ultimate - trioderob 22:06:14 11/13/21 (0)
  thats why I always dreamed about putting together a system with Ale compression bass drivers
- What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT - MaggiesAndCats 09:12:27 11/13/21 (15)
  - Neodymium magnets !!! - emailtim 10:26:52 11/13/21 (0)
    If they used Neodymium magnets, the motor would be stronger and much more spendy !!!
  - RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT - Davey 09:25:10 11/13/21 (13)
    That just means the motor structure is symmetrical in operation. It doesn't mean they don't have energy storage, or related issues.
    
    Dave.
    - RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT - MaggiesAndCats 14:10:13 11/13/21 (12)
      I know I have a meager understanding, but wouldn't a symmetrical motor controlling in 2 directions rather than one give tighter control over the vibrating surface, i.e. mylar for the Maggies. I'd expect the result to be an attack/sustain/decay that more closely matches the recorded sound, and reducing the impact of the stored energy. As already mentioned, stronger magnets could further improve the bidirectional control.
      
      Regards,
      
      Steve
      - RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT - Davey 14:32:31 11/13/21 (11)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT posted by MaggiesAndCats on November 13, 2021 at 14:10:13
        
        It would, assuming you had more flux density as a result of the extra magnets. The 20.X design is superior in this aspect. No doubt about that.
        
        If you manufactured something that was symmetrical in motor structure, but had half the magnet (on either side) relative to an asymmetrical scheme with the (overall) same magnet, it would be very similar in operation. However, the distortion makeup would be different.
        But, in this case you might find, subjectively, that many folks would prefer the asymmetrical layout. :)
        
        Dave.
        
        RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT - MaggiesAndCats 17:01:22 11/13/21 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT posted by Davey on November 13, 2021 at 14:32:31
        
        Are you aware of any speakers that use the asymmetrical magnet arrangement?
        
        Regards,
        
        Steve
        
        RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT - Davey 17:46:29 11/13/21 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT posted by MaggiesAndCats on November 13, 2021 at 17:01:22
        
        Yeah, all Maggies other than the 20.X type. :)
        
        Dave.
        
        RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT - MaggiesAndCats 18:15:36 11/13/21 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT posted by Davey on November 13, 2021 at 17:46:29
        
        I'm afraid I'm not following... :}
        
        "If you manufactured something that was symmetrical in motor structure, but had half the magnet (on either side) relative to an asymmetrical scheme with the (overall) same magnet, it would be very similar in operation."
        
        I interpreted "symmetrical" as meaning magnets on both sides ala the 20.x series.
        
        I can't say I've heard many opinions that the other Maggie's have more pleasing bass than the 20 series. Other than the 30's of course.
        
        Regards,
        
        Steve
        
        RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT - Davey 18:42:37 11/13/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT posted by MaggiesAndCats on November 13, 2021 at 18:15:36
        
        My "if you....." was a hypothetical.
        All of the Magnepan models (other than 20.X series) have an asymmetrical motor structure because the magnets are physically on one side of the voice coils.
        Even with that, you could make the case the magnetic field is strong enough to alleviate much of that asymmetry during normal operation.
        But it's not 'fully' symmetrical, like the 20.X setup.
        Regards the subjective comparisons, it's not apples-to-apples because the 20.X speakers are much larger than other models.
        Dave.
        
        Edits: 11/13/21
        
        RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT - pictureguy 15:24:09 11/13/21 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT posted by Davey on November 13, 2021 at 14:32:31
        
        I suggested stronger magnets YEARS ago and was met with crickets.
        
        You could, with such magnets increase the pole piece / driver spacing a little......still gain some sensitivity while lower chances of bottoming out.....
        
        You MUST replace those refrigerator magnets with something of greater flux density.
        But ALSO must be careful. VERY strong magnets can be dangerous. Everthing from a pinch event to stuff 'sticking'. Neo matnets are also brittle so you have THAT to look forward to...
        
        between parts, fabrication and training, costs would go up...
        Too much is never enough
        
        RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT - Green Lantern 05:02:35 11/14/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT posted by pictureguy on November 13, 2021 at 15:24:09
        
        you had me laughing at the crickets part lol.
        
        Hey PG Audio-Con is coming up in January,it's in Newport Beach I'm thinking of going on Saturday, let me know if you want to head up there with me.
        
        RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT - Davey 17:51:17 11/13/21 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT posted by pictureguy on November 13, 2021 at 15:24:09
        
        Well, the reason your suggestion was met with crickets should have been obvious. All of those stronger magnets are darn expensive AND they come from the country with the big "C" in its name.
        
        If I were Magnepan, I wouldn't go that direction either.
        
        Dave.
        
        RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT - pictureguy 21:13:30 11/13/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT posted by Davey on November 13, 2021 at 17:51:17
        
        One other minor point?
        
        Magnepan conventional wisdom is More good Watts = Better. I can't argue with that except my needs are more modest and with an A23 Parasound per panel....which is 200x2 I don't ever come close to tapping out my amps.. These amps play as loud or louder than the PSAudio I had years ago with 500x2 4ohm watts. It was a 'D' amp.
        
        But what IF a panel were an honest 3db more sensitive? Or 6db? Required amp power drops and the cost of a system may stay the same....More for the speakers? LESS for the amp. This cuts into running expenses, too. Especially for the Tube guy who may need output tubes replaced.
        
        Let's say my 'new' panels are over 3db more sensitive than my 1.6s? I would need only 1 amp, not that pair I now have. Savings? About 1000$ at retail for the amp. Could an 'improved' 1.6 gone more than 1000$ more than what I paid for 'em?
        Too much is never enough
        
        RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT - pictureguy 20:31:37 11/13/21 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT posted by Davey on November 13, 2021 at 17:51:17
        
        Actually, my suggestion which has never been reacted to by anyone is that
        Magnepan establish a 'Custom Shop'....modeled after say.....Colt Firearms......
        You could get many Colt firearms rebuilt / detailed AND engraved. All are $$ and ALL are collectible.
        
        My suggestion to Magnepan? Get an EXPERT woodworker / help and proper shop tools. Sell CUSTOM wood framed panels built essentially TO SPEC. A few other things got tossed in, too, but that's the 'nut' of it....
        
        Stronger Magnets are in some ways Hazardous. And China is NOT the only source for 'em......the US, for example has rare earth deposits, too.....
        But you would require changes AT Magnepan. Pinch injuries with Uber Powerful magnets are possible. They STICK to one-another like stuck with CrazyGlue. You simply Can't screw that up.
        You would need proper tooling to handle and assemble a pole piece.... This would not be a trivial investment and may short-term slow down production.
        Too much is never enough
        https://www.colt.com/page/colt-custom (Open in New Window)
        
        RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT - Davey 22:02:49 11/13/21 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT posted by pictureguy on November 13, 2021 at 20:31:37
        
        A custom shop? :)
        
        Magnepan is back-logged for months just trying to supply demand for their 'normal' products. I don't really know the inner business workings of the
        company, but I suspect a grandiose plan like that would partition the company into insolvency almost immediately. Concentrating on core competency, primarily, should be their objective. IMHO.
        
        Dave.
        
        RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT - pictureguy 22:18:10 11/13/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What about the push-pull magnets in the 20 series Maggies? NT posted by Davey on November 13, 2021 at 22:02:49
        
        I get it and understand 'core competency'....
        They'd continue making the SAME drivers in the same manner as now.
        
        The object is a Vallue Added reframe build which at first may offer only 2 or 3 woods. It would require ONLY a small shop. Maybe 500sqft to 600sqft. That is? 20x25 or 20x30. You'd need some tooling which can be Leased.
        
        Magnepan works on the 'wear many hats' model, if I know my manufacturing. You may have a dedicated shipping / receiveing 'group' but production must be flexible and willing to work any number of stations. I am 100% certain that opportunities exist to cut costs and increase production without adversly effecting quality or output. I did that kind of thing for a living for 20 years.
        In the long run? Quality IS free, just like the book title.
        
        If they are at capacity and any deviation from keeping the boat bailed out results in insolvency? Somebody needs to reevaluate the business model. I'd like to know some things. Like scrap rate? Rework rate? Employee turnover? I'd like to see the quality program data. I'd go into the company and pretend to be an ISO Auditor. I was thru bunches of them over the years and got pretty good at it. I could care less about stuff like the 'organizational chart' which is nearly meaningless. How does stuff REALLY get decided? Are they running 24-7 or 2 shifts or ???
        
        Nothing but opportunity.
        
        Too much is never enough

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