Planar Speaker Asylum

Welcome! Need support, you got it. Or share your ideas and experiences.

Return to Planar Speaker Asylum

Planar Speaker Asylum

Unfortunately not... my calcs are as follows

58.7.180.129

In Reply to: RE: Sorry, mate, no ... or, at least, it's extreeemely doubtful !! :-(( ... posted by andyr on September 30, 2010 at 01:10:40

Isn't the max power of the Maggies 250w into 8 ohms? Even the Accuphase P-7100 only does 125 watts into 8 ohms..is a 50kg beast, and getting seriously expensive!

The calcs I have done are as follows

At 3 metres from the 1.7's and adding 5db for room gain, and requiring 3db of headroom.. you need;

New Age 60-70 dB <1 watt
Chamber music, small auditorium 75 - 85dB 1 watts
Folk 75-90 dB 3 watts
Jazz 80-95 dB 8 watts
Pop 90-95 dB 25 watts
Symphonic Classical 75-120 dB 143 watts
Rock 95-110 dB 254 watts
Heavy Metal 110 dB 1426 watts
Loud rock concert 115 dB 7149 watts
Physical Pain 125 dB 45106 watts
Death 180 dB 142637 watts

Health guidelines say no more than 94db for one hour, or 36 watts.

Follow Ups:

3dB headroom? - BigguyinATL 08:35:59 10/01/10 (0)
Try minimum 13dB headroom! and that's just for rock and roll!
Three most important things in Audio reproduction: Keep the noise levels low, the power high and the room diffuse.
RE: Unfortunately not... my calcs are as follows - josh358 10:33:17 09/30/10 (0)
The amplifier power specs aren't really applicable, planars will eat several thousand peak watts and with acoustical music anyway that's going to be the limiting factor. What can damage them is high continuous power levels, at some point the mylar gets soft and wrinkles. But the 4A fuse will prevent that, it will blow at 64 watts continuous.

The peak-to-average ratio of acoustical music is 10-20 dB. OK, so 120 dB is a pretty good peak figure for classical music with headroom. I'd aim for that, which means that if your priority is clean peaks at natural levels (not everyone's is), you should size your amplifier accordingly. If you want to do the calculations figure 83 dB at 1 meter at 1 watt, add maybe 4 dB for room gain (dipole line sources throw less energy into the room than omnis), subtract 6 dB for a 3 meter listening distance (line sources fall off linearly in the near field, rather than as the square). So you have about 80 dB for 1 watt. That means you need about 10,000 watts of peak power into 4 ohms. Now reality intrudes, and you go with 1000 watts RMS into 8 ohms and an amp that has reasonably good peak headroom (in most amps, more likely to be limited by current at 4 ohms than voltage), and sacrifice your 3 dB of headroom. In practice, that's usually enough, although one poster here, who likes to listen to chamber music at proximate levels, had to put a 2000 watt bass amplifier on his triamped system to eliminate clipping.

You don't want the continuous levels of a rock/heavy metal concert because they'll damage your hearing over time, but in any case you're going to be limited on heavily compressed material by the 4A fuse and the thermal limits of the tweeter rather than the amplifier.

Anyway, it's worth reiterating that whether you need an amp that large (or even larger) depends on your listening habits and, perhaps, whether you prefer the sound of a small sweet amplifier to the openness that a powerful amp can bring to the loudest recordings. As someone pointed out, it can also depend on the amplifier and amplifier technology, some handle overloads better than others.
RE: Unfortunately not... my calcs are as follows - neolith 06:11:01 09/30/10 (2)
I run a total of 2200 W (550 @ 4 ohm) into my actively bi-amped (so 4 channels) IIIa's, and I rarely listen above 90db peak. Just sayin' :)
�

I plan to procrastinate my demise for as long as possible. In the meantime, I practice by putting off all the little stuff.
- RE: Unfortunately not... my calcs are as follows - morricab 06:32:10 09/30/10 (1)
  "and I rarely listen above 90db peak. Just sayin' :)"
  
  And you also don't use more than a handful of those watts in that case.
  
  I have a friend with McIntosh MC501 monos and we are rarely above 5-10 watts in a listening session. Occasionally with some loud listening with more dynamic than usual music there were peaks to 50 watts. Just sayin'
  - can I play too? - wazoo 20:22:24 09/30/10 (0)
    I have a pair of 3.6s driven by a single, but hefty Pass amp that happens to have something akin to a power meter on its face. To oversimplify a little, that X350 will pump 140W into a 4ohm load in class A mode - exceeding that point is indicated by the movement of the meter.
    Last Saturday, some friends asked me if I had any Eagles on DVD. We enjoyed near-live levels throughout the entire 2nd disc of The Eagles' Farewell 1 Tour (I rather like Joe Walsh). That needle never stopped moving.
    Just sayin'.
    ---
    BTW, everyone thought it was awesome. That volume revealed some niggling room issues, but that's going to take a little while longer to get nailed down. All in all, I pretty much agree with my friends' assessment of awesome. To be quite honest, that's the loudest I've ever listened to a stereo for that long - I never once thought about turning it down (except for this fear that I might be disturbing neighbors with midnight approaching). Obviously, nobody else thought about it either - I asked after a couple of songs and they wanted me to turn it up a little (it was already as loud as I would normally listen).
    Just sayin'.
    ---
    Okay, what exactly am I just sayin'?
    I can only say that I bear witness to the fact that Maggies have no compunction against cracking a whip on a brute's back. 700W is a far cry from 2200W, but it's still a fairly significant amount of power. If you want to crank them, you better have a big spoon ready.
    
    "Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
    
    Edits: 09/30/10 09/30/10
Do all the calcs you want, mate - actual comparison of different amps ... - andyr 02:43:46 09/30/10 (6)
is what is needed. It's not just the watt rating into 4 ohms or the amount of current which the amp can put out. It also depends whether its tube power or ss power. And other things. :-))

It also depends, yes, on how loud you like to listen.

But if you search these pages, you'll find post after post of people who are running what are humungous amounts of power into Maggies - and loving it (and not blowing them up, either!). And also posts by people with true-ribbon Maggies who have blown their ribbons by feeding the speaker with (in one example) a 100w tube amp (most likely due to clipping, which injects a lot of HF hash into the signal).

The Accuphase P7100 may well be enough (as, being Accuphase, it probably has a pretty hefty PS!) but, as I said, some people are using 1Kw Wired4Sound D-class amps on their bass panels alone!

Don't confuse $$$ cost with ability to drive Maggies. I have heard a Parasound A21 driving 3.6s very well - which requires more power than a 1.7 - and that is not anywhere near the same $ price bracket as Accuphase.

Regards,

Andy
- RE: Do all the calcs you want, mate - actual comparison of different amps ... - morricab 06:29:59 09/30/10 (4)
  "But if you search these pages, you'll find post after post of people who are running what are humungous amounts of power into Maggies "
  
  You don't seriously think that they are using the full power of their amps 99.9% of the time do you? I would wager that most of the time the amount is in the single to low double digit range.
  - RE: Do all the calcs you want, mate - actual comparison of different amps ... - Davey 08:43:34 09/30/10 (3)
    Brad,
    
    ".....most of the time the amount is in the single to low double digit range."
    I'd agree with that, but.....it's probably time for your canned (spl/distance/watts) reply again. :)
    
    I can't believe how convoluted these power/current discussions have gotten on this forum through the years. Andy is talking about the difference between tube and SS power......folks seem to equate power amplifier 'capability' with power 'usage'....
    
    Cheers,
    
    Dave.
    - RE: Do all the calcs you want, mate - actual comparison of different amps ... - morricab 12:42:57 09/30/10 (2)
      no its, the big blue meters said so.
      - RE: Do all the calcs you want, mate - actual comparison of different amps ... - Travis 16:13:20 09/30/10 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Do all the calcs you want, mate - actual comparison of different amps ... posted by morricab on September 30, 2010 at 12:42:57
        
        Oh no, it's the heat sinks you can't leave your hand on.
        
        "If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
        
        RE: Do all the calcs you want, mate - actual comparison of different amps ... - morricab 03:30:58 10/04/10 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Do all the calcs you want, mate - actual comparison of different amps ... posted by Travis on September 30, 2010 at 16:13:20
        
        The big McIntosh MC501s run pretty cold actually as they are mostly Class B. We had the pair hooked up to a PS Audio power regenerator (just to see what would happen as it was only a 500 watter) and at idle the two amps together only were drawing 90 watts of power. That means each 500 watt monoblock is idling at only 45 watts of power draw, which means not much bias current running through them there output transistors (probably less than 1 watt Class A power available).
- RE: Do all the calcs you want, mate - actual comparison of different amps ... - warmfires 02:50:58 09/30/10 (0)
  i'd agree with Andy here, i have a used NAD C270 power amp putting out 200w per channel and it isn't expensive, and it does a pretty good job of driving my MMGs.
  
  I auditioned a few amps..Quad 606, carver, both 100 watters and they couldn't do the job.
  
  WF.
  This rovers crossed over
  to the >>>SUNNY<<< side of the street

Post a Followup:

FAQ

Post a Message!

Forgot Password?

Moniker (Username):
Password (Optional):
	Remember my Moniker & Password (What's this?) Eat Me
E-Mail (Optional):
Subject:

Message:	(Posts are subject to Content Rules)

Optional Link URL:
Optional Link Title:
Optional Image URL:
Upload Image:
E-mail Replies:	Automagically notify you when someone responds.

To view your new posting or follow-up, click on the RELOAD or REFRESH button on your browser.

This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: