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RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars?

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In Reply to: RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? posted by Hi-fi Nut on September 20, 2010 at 05:40:46

Maggies have 2 things going against them where audiophiles go.

1 - Many just don't like planars. The why of that escapes me, but it's true.

2 - Maggies are the only high end speaker that their owners have to "fix" on their own to actually make them high end speakers. Many people look at that and dismiss them out of hand because of it.

I'd put a properly "fixed" maggie up against any planar, or any cabinet speaker as well for that matter, and I do mean any. Yeah, maybe you had to "fix" them and it did cost more but they were (essentially) cheap to begin with and the final cost is still far less than the speaker who's ass they are now kicking.

:^ )

It's all about the music...

Follow Ups:

RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? - IEaudiodude 09:02:32 09/22/10 (0)
Those hill folk and their silly cone speakers . To much moonshine maybe....
LIKE MOST TWEAKS ... - Feanor 07:25:20 09/22/10 (1)
Most Maggie "fixes" are relatively costly marginal improvements, (at best).
___
My Stereo Configuration
- RE: LIKE MOST TWEAKS ... - thebordas 08:41:44 09/24/10 (0)
  Couldn't agree more:O)
  dave_b
RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? - morricab 03:25:53 09/22/10 (11)
I guees most people think that getting the speaker right is the job of the company and not an after purchase consideration.

Even though the construction of Apogees was also not perfect it was far better than than Maggies and the resulting sound was also better. If you now want to take some old Apogees to a higher level it is also possible and there is even a company in Australia to help.

With electrostats there is not much modding to be done. Either you dig it or you don't.

By the time you have "fixed" the Maggies they pretty much fall in line, pricewise, with the others.
- RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? - thebordas 04:24:35 09/22/10 (10)
  Bull+++t!
  dave_b
  - RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? - morricab 10:04:06 09/22/10 (9)
    You are such an articulate individual, aren't you? Clueless to boot.
    - RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? - thebordas 10:19:44 09/22/10 (8)
      Just conservative in my choice of words. Bull++it was the most appropriate response to your post I'm afraid:O)
      dave_b
      - RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? - morricab 02:31:46 09/23/10 (7)
        
        In Reply to: RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? posted by thebordas on September 22, 2010 at 10:19:44
        
        Spoken like someone who has no clue. How many planar speakers have you owned besides the one pair of 3.6r? No other ones I would wager by your response above. Its funny that the most virulent in any religion are the recently converted. I on the other hand have had numerous planar speakers over the years and have many close friends that are all planar speaker owners, so I have heard most of the relevant models out there in great detail.
        
        Just so it is clear to you I have owned the following planars/hybrids:
        
        Infinity IRS Beta (ruthlessly revealing)
        Infinity Modulus sub/sat (planar tweeter)
        Audiostatic ES100
        Stax ELS F81
        Apogee Caliper Signature
        Acoustat 1+1
        Acoustat Spectra 2200 (best compromise for a modest room size)
        Acoustat Spectra 4400 (best bass from a planar I have heard)
        BG planar hybrid (DIY fully active)
        
        close friends systems:
        Apogee Grand (2 friends have this rare ultimate loudspeaker...the best!)
        Apogee Studio Grand
        Apogee mini grand
        Apogee Full-range (rebuilt and reribboned)
        Apogee Scintilla (5 friends own these...all re-ribboned and rebuilt)
        Apogee Diva (re-ribboned and rebuilt crossover)
        Apogee Centaur Major
        
        Final 1.4 reference electrostats
        Acoustat 1+1
        Acoustat Spectra 22
        
        Maggie 3.6r
        Maggie 1.6
        Maggie 1.5
        Maggie 2.5r
        
        It seems you like and being offensive rather than trying to explain what you think was false about my statements. I welcome a debate as to why you think your 3.6r is so good but as you are probably very inexperienced with other planars then I guess BS is all I can expect from you.
        
        RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? - thebordas 04:11:37 09/23/10 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? posted by morricab on September 23, 2010 at 02:31:46
        
        Sorry for the vulgarity. No excuse really, except for one of frustration over your tendency to "excuse" magnepan from the conversation all too readily. My virulence, if you will, is directed toward the notion that magnepan speakers are a lesser offering in the world of so called "High End" transducers. Comparisons to speakers no longer in production or that require a significantly higher price of admission sould be considered outside the domain of relevance here. I'd rather deal with actuality as opposed to the "what could be". My focus is on what the average audiophile can obtain and use effectively at home. You obviously seem to have a substantial amount of experience with regards to planar speakers. Which one(s) in current production that are readily available would you say compete well with the 3.6R for example? For $5K I am not aware of any serious competition....perhaps there is however. My experience is a practical one and based on ownership only, most of which has been with expensive dynamic speakers. Other than my previous Model 1's so many moons ago, I have owned Dunlavy SC-V's, Wilson W/P 6&7 models, B&W 801N, ML Odyssey's, Totem Wind and Forest speakers, Dynaudio C4's and several other budget brands. Of course I have salivated over many other designs at my local dealer, "Overture Audio" in Delaware, USA. My point is that for sheer musical enjoyment, a better speaker is hard to find at each of magnepan's respective price points. Also, I have definately favored more simplified reproduction chains in recent years and admire a speaker that can sound good without making Herculean efforts to accomodate inherent problems with their design(s). Maggies and "Myth" go hand in hand it seems, and I get extremely upset with individuals who can not seem to grasp basic concepts relevant to proper usage. Anyway, I am interested in what you might have to offer that is directly equatable to the current Maggie lineup. As an aside, I must admit my extreme prejudice relating to discussions of components in the absence of definitive "system" environments and ancillaries...and of course cost.
        dave_b
        
        RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? - morricab 10:54:50 09/23/10 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? posted by thebordas on September 23, 2010 at 04:11:37
        
        "Which one(s) in current production that are readily available would you say compete well with the 3.6R for example? For $5K I am not aware of any serious competition....perhaps there is however"
        
        For $5K new I would agree with you. For $5K used...another story. There are hybrids from Ambience that should be quite good but if you want full planar...??
        
        "Also, I have definately favored more simplified reproduction chains in recent years and admire a speaker that can sound good without making Herculean efforts to accomodate inherent problems with their design(s). Maggies and "Myth" go hand in hand it seems, and I get extremely upset with individuals who can not seem to grasp basic concepts relevant to proper usage"
        
        Well, I know you have heard me harp on about amplification but I have heard Maggies take several steps forward with really good tube or hybrid amps. I have never heard a "Gunned" Maggie so color me skeptical about the claimed benefits.
        
        If you have the dough, do yourself a favor and pickup a pair of Apogee Duetta Signatures or Divas. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Even a cheap pair of Acoustat 1+1 with Medallion transformers will have you going Hmmm... (they can be absolutely stunning with a good OTL amp).
        
        The big Acoustats (2+2, Spectra 4400, Spectra 6600 etc.) have gobsmacking good bass with real slam that people claim that planars don't have.
        
        RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? - thebordas 19:07:14 09/23/10 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? posted by morricab on September 23, 2010 at 10:54:50
        
        Thanks for the overview, but I'll stick with my 3.6R's. As I said, as far as current production speakers go, Magnepan offers the best bang for the buck! My system is tuned for what I have, which I am definately not interested in messing around with:O)
        dave_b
        
        RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? - ahendler 13:15:04 09/23/10 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? posted by morricab on September 23, 2010 at 10:54:50
        
        I don't know why we argue so much with peoples subjective opinions of there own experiences. I owned Acoustat monitor 3's for many years and they were nowhere as good a speaker as the Maggie 1.6qr's. I drove the acoustats with both solid state and tubes and they had very loose bass and rolled off highs. The midrange was glorius but no better than the Maggies. That is my experience and means nothing more than that. I have also heard Soundlabs and found them uninvolving. I do like Martin Logans but always found them to be on the bright side. I welcome all other opinions but none will invalidate mine.
        Alan
        
        RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? - morricab 03:52:21 09/24/10 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? posted by ahendler on September 23, 2010 at 13:15:04
        
        "I owned Acoustat monitor 3's for many years and they were nowhere as good a speaker as the Maggie 1.6qr's."
        
        And they had the first generation transformer interface. Later models had far superior interfaces (especially the last generation Spectra series, which are very transparent and eliminate beaming).
        
        One other important area that Acoustats are better, coherence. While Maggies aren't bad and Apogees are better, neither is as coherent as a fullrange electrostat.
        
        "Soundlabs and found them uninvolving"
        
        Depends also with what amps they are being driven because I have heard Maggies MOSTLY sounding uninvolving and only with really good tube amps did they delvier great sound.
        
        "I do like Martin Logans but always found them to be on the bright side"
        
        The only ML that I really liked was the Prodigy. Their panels sound dynamically restricted for the most part and I suspect that it is due to their supposed "cure" for beaming, i.e. curving the panel.
        
        Bravo, bravo. I agree with not letting someone's elses views invalidate your own observations . . - Alan G. 16:21:32 09/23/10 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? posted by ahendler on September 23, 2010 at 13:15:04
        
        I find that I am in agreement with much of what you write on this site.
        
        RE: Bravo, bravo. I agree with not letting someone's elses views invalidate your own observations . . - ahendler 07:08:39 09/24/10 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Bravo, bravo. I agree with not letting someone's elses views invalidate your own observations . . posted by Alan G. on September 23, 2010 at 16:21:32
        
        Thank you.
        I just feel we could learn a lot from each other if we would just stop the silly fighting. For instance I just learned that the later Acoustats had better interface transformers. Good to know if you are going to buy some used ones. Also I heard the Soundlabs with some big Atmasphere OTL's
        Alan
RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? - pictureguy 16:14:15 09/20/10 (1)
PG didn't include the effect from his post.

Maggies are what I call an 'opinion magnet'. For better or worse, love 'em or hate 'em.

Kind of polarizing, like BagPipe music.
Too much is never enough
- RE: A prejudice against the Magneplanars? - Peter Gunn 06:36:50 09/21/10 (0)
  Or the Glass Armonica... yes, you are quite correct. That should officially be point number 3.
  
  :^ )
  
  It's all about the music...

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